New Feeding System for Vote

[simone]

I am one of the people who would likely forget to turn in her tickets, but I believe this can be greatly reduced by a pretty easy solution. What if we set up a tiny table by the stairs to put the box on with a big, obvious sign? Or possibly at the bottom of the stairs with a little light. If it's somewhere you have to pass on your way out, you're way less likely to miss it. Also this would reduce traffic around the paper table.

- Alaina

[The Gentleman]

Oct 24, 2012 13:20:07 GMT -8 simone said:

I am one of the people who would likely forget to turn in her tickets, but I believe this can be greatly reduced by a pretty easy solution. What if we set up a tiny table by the stairs to put the box on with a big, obvious sign? Or possibly at the bottom of the stairs with a little light. If it's somewhere you have to pass on your way out, you're way less likely to miss it. Also this would reduce traffic around the paper table.

- Alaina

Well, the problem is that you have to put your tickets back into your folder. Otherwise it's just a pile of tickets.

[Hephaestus]

However, we could easily keep the folders there. That's an excellent idea Alaina.

[simone]

I meant the box with the folders in it (or boxes, if the folders get big enough that we need to divide them into two.)

Another thing occured to me about this. From my observations, about half to two thirds of game almost never spend blood during a session. Could these people make the choice to leave their tickets in their folder each night and not even bother with it? If these people happen to get pulled in some sort of freak, unexpected combat, their folder would only be a few steps away and they could grab their tickets relatively quickly.

I figure people who aren't really using it are much more likely to forget to turn them in than people who's lives (unlives?) depend on how much blood they have left.

Just a thought.

-Alaina

[Kevin K]

Oct 24, 2012 12:59:11 GMT -8 Hephaestus said:

Canon suggests that Vitae (instead of blood) has a very distinctive flavor i.e. is super delicious. I would say that a Kindred could probably pretty easily taste the difference. Whether they can stop themselves from drinking it anyway while hungry would depend on a self control roll.

Good point on hunger. But also it will be important to me to have the opportunity to stop before I'm bound. Would that still be possible?

[Skir]

Oct 24, 2012 14:28:34 GMT -8 simone said:

Could these people make the choice to leave their tickets in their folder each night and not even bother with it? -Alaina

Yep, nothing stops you from that - just dont pull them from your folder in the first place.

I think maybe my statement on Ventrue flaw got misunderstood. Ventrue can always drink vampire blood, sure. When I said no sharing, I wasn't talking about people opening their wrists for others.

If your feeding pool earns more blood than you can use, you can give away the excess. If this is from normal feeding pools this means you are sharing your prey in a vampire shared feeding bonding experience, high-fiving while you feed. Also, with Herd, you can always loan your Herd out to another for the night, partially or in full. This means Herd is always still useful even if you're awesome at feeding. There is also blood generated by businesses like Nightclubs, etc.

In each of those three cases, Ventrue could not partake normally.

It doesn't have anything to do with Blood Bonds.

[Kevin K]

For my part, I took it as presumably mortal blood, but interpreted Nick's comment to mean that the fear of potential blood bonds from tainted blood would keep some from partaking in a blood economy.

[Jeff]

So, if we just don't grab our tickets, totally the easiest way to do this, then all the STs need to do is allow us to either go grab our blood tickets mid-scene if needed ( or keep track and go grab them after scene to not mess up the scene.)

That, that actually works fairly well as I'm thinking about it.

[Kevin K]

I dunno, that means that scene starts and... is interrupted as everyone swarms the folder box, then gets distracted on the way back. Large scenes will never start. And if you're the only one spending blood, there's pressure not to 'disrupt the scene.' Sounds a lot like not having your sheet.

Why can't we just check our folder at the beginning of game? It's already in envelopes and alphabetical -- doesn't have to be one at a time, it could easily be spread out and five minutes' effort. Put it nearer the door than it currently is, and it's a no-brainer.

I'd be willing to at least try it that way for a few games. If it totally suxxors, we can try out the 'grab when necessary' approach.

[Shah-Khohr of Ventrue]

I'm a fan of grabbing a few week one, keeping them in my pocket and not turning them in, just spending them as I go, and allowing my debt to alter how much I find in there next week if I burn through all of them. Its easier for me. And at the end of the day, that's my highest priority

[The Gentleman]

Oct 24, 2012 19:17:43 GMT -8 Shah-Khohr of Ventrue said:

I'm a fan of grabbing a few week one, keeping them in my pocket and not turning them in, just spending them as I go, and allowing my debt to alter how much I find in there next week if I burn through all of them. Its easier for me. And at the end of the day, that's my highest priority

Can someone crunch the math on this to see how it would affect the amount of blood you would get each week? Does this kind of "storing" break the system in such a way as to either benefit or screw players? Since it's a ratio based on how much blood you use, keeping tickets might generate more blood than you're supposed to have. Or possibly less - I'm not sure as I haven't run the numbers.

[Skir]

If you grab a few (say 3) your Blood debt would increase by 3 next game, but for most people that would change their actual blood total in their folder by 0 or 1. You'd net blood over time doing it that way.

[The Gentleman]

Oct 25, 2012 11:51:34 GMT -8 Skir said:

If you grab a few (say 3) your Blood debt would increase by 3 next game, but for most people that would change their actual blood total in their folder by 0 or 1. You'd net blood over time doing it that way.

So, that seems like maybe a problem? Am I thinking about this wrong?

[The Gentleman]

Quick Math using the example from the first post.



This is the spread of what happens if someone doesn't return any of their tickets, ever.

[Ascanio Giovanni]

I would like to add a reminder to those of you who might still be unsure but are interested in seeing how this plays out that part of our platform already allows for this. After a new rule or system has been in play for a minimum of one month, it takes 10 player signing a petition to call for a new vote. Therefore, if this completely crashes for some unforeseen reasons there will be a remedy in your hands as players.

[Skir]

Someone mentioned that my previous post also looked like since I didn't say otherwise, that I was condoning the idea of a playing fast and loose with tickets and encouraging a gradual variance in blood ticket totals, or that it was alright to sort of have some tickets from last game, or otherwise tickets you shouldn't have and just use them.

That isn't the impression I'm trying to give. If everyone does what they are supposed to, pick up tickets and drop off tickets, everything will work fine. Not doing that in a way that gives some kind of advantage is cheating, and needless to say has repercussions.

[Thornstar]

Nov 5, 2012 12:39:42 GMT -8 Skir said:

Someone mentioned that my previous post also looked like since I didn't say otherwise, that I was condoning the idea of a playing fast and loose with tickets and encouraging a gradual variance in blood ticket totals, or that it was alright to sort of have some tickets from last game, or otherwise tickets you shouldn't have and just use them.

That isn't the impression I'm trying to give. If everyone does what they are supposed to, pick up tickets and drop off tickets, everything will work fine. Not doing that in a way that gives some kind of advantage is cheating, and needless to say has repercussions.

So what *are* you saying, then? This is a terrible and clunky system that people will inevitably find their way around, and then you'll just be mad at them and punish them for finding the way the world works?

Cause that's system for ya.

The current feeding system accounts for:
A. Smarter, more social characters are better at collecting and maintaining a blood pool.
B. Easy hunting rolls using the system directly from the book, leaving the storyteller running the scene free to narrate out the happenings of said scene with the player, already knowing what the result of the scene will be based off the primary roll.
C. It utilizes numbers and systems which are compatible with mod-dot, and the entirety of the summary of a kindred's blood needs and availability fit on a simple 3x5 card.
D. It makes Herd far more valuable than it previously had been, while not requiring micromanagment of it as a resource.
E. It didn't allow someone to convince a staff member that they should be good at feeding because they have Stamina 5 + Dodge 5.
F. While the player side was very simple, and the Staff side was very simple, it allowed for near infinite variability of the feeding experience based on what happened to the city and where.
G. It allowed for "the Rack" to go back to being an actual location, instead of a domain. The rack provided a different experience, one more transparent to other vampires feeding there. If you fed in the rack, you were to be made aware of the other vampires feeding there, since you were all cramming into a single, blood filled building to do your feeding.
H. Outside of that, it made feeding a more personal, hidden thing. There was no way to know if someone who tested down at announcements was actually noteably more assailable because of it. I guess that's still the same in your system.

Basically, the only thing wrong with the availability of blood under the current method is that no one has put the work into it from the staff side to make the system function. Who keeps track of what kindred is feeding where? Who is altering the difficulties to feed in different domains at different times based on Metastory and individual actions of players?

No one. That's who.

Oh, and the addition of generation to the calculations. That was also not on the roadmap.

I'd be happy to go over how what we've got is supposed to work with you guys.

In the mean time, for the players, I would suggest (and hope) that you vote no on this system.

[Skir]

You are welcome to vote against it.

As you might recall from the background survey you filled out, the answer to your question is not no one. I know what a terrible clunky system looks like, and I know as well as anyone how to find ways around them. People are welcome to use the rules of the game to make their characters excel at certain tasks. People are not welcome to violate the rules of the game to willfully deceive other players and storytellers about how their characters interact with the game rules.

If you think that cheating is somehow easier with blood as a participatory commodity measured in physical items than with a personal number that you keep track of all in your head between scenes, you will find yourself mistaken.

[Shah-Khohr of Ventrue]

If what 'we've got' is so much easier to work then the proposed system, I don't think it would need a grandiose explanation.

[Skir]

This vote passed and is considered to be in active play. The site will be updated to reflect the new rules.