Post by Wit on Jun 15, 2014 20:58:12 GMT -8
Hello ECC Cam Players,
My names Mark, most folks in the game probably know me as Marcus. Like a few other people, I would like to add my name to the list of people interested in helping the game be the awesome place it has been. More on that in a bit, as I will try to follow something close to the format that other folks have so far, meaning first is our bona fides.
Now, the bona fides; I was an AST for the latter half of Seans’ term recently, having a chance to run some story lines for a number of the players. I also was HST for the Demon spheres most recent attempt at re-incarnation. Add that with a lot of tabletop experiences. I have run a number of different style games, and played in even more. And I would like a chance to bring some of the ideas that I have to our long running Camarilla game.
I jump right to calling it that, because that at its core is what the 10-2 game is; Vampire the Masquerade – Camarilla game. Now by that I don’t in any way mean to exclude some of the areas we have in play (Anarchs, Giovanni, independents and occasional Settite for instance). They add a lot to the game, and I am glad we have them. But a mainstay of the Cam is its courts and politics. And I think we can grow a lot in that way, and grow it in game and out without resetting what we have done and been over the past years.
There is a concern that the game has lost its way and gotten way off track. I think it has just grown passed what people had established expectations for. Now, I don’t mean this in any one way, but the important part of that is I don’t think the players, ST’s or much of anyone shares the same expectations as to what the game is. There isn’t a shared understanding of what is going on locally or abroad. We each have ideas in our head, but when this conflicts with what others have in their head, it causes strife out of character as well. It raises frustration and anger when you realize you don’t necessarily know what to expect out of system, story, background and timing. I think a good deal of time needs to be spent to standardize these expectations. I plan to take some time each game, as well as pre and post helping connecting this together. Later on I will try to bring forth some of my ideas.
Last time I was running as an AST I had heard concerns that I make things Hard on the players, and I was a bit surprised by that, but in retrospect I can see where it’s coming from. I like getting players involved, especially groups of them, when there are plots to be part of. Finding a plot and bringing a power hammer against it… it doesn’t add a lot to the game. My goal in weaving a story is to get the players and characters involved, invested and active in what’s going on.
So what do I want to work on? Well, my platform is the next section it would seem. What are my thoughts along the way? First, a shared expectation that would need to be found, an answer to the question, “what is Seattle?” What is the setting of the game? Here are the thoughts I have had;
What does that mean to us? It means you can expect that the world will have a hand in the game, but it is not the place that every elder ever should be looking. Life happens outside of Seattle, but Seattle is the lens (The Main Stage) of our story. It does keep actions framed by the world, things that the Emerald Domain might accept something that could greatly offend the world at large. Breaking conventions that clans and organizations have established could have repercussions. This could be political backlash, gaining enemies or the like. It is this sort of communal pressure that helps keep this Ivory tower tied together, and forms a sect out of it through the norms that it expects and enforces.
Note this doesn’t change as much as it might seem to. This just highlights the grand Seventh Tradition. Most things are not a problem, if you don’t get caught. Learning say, a rare discipline will not yank eyes on you. However going around yelling about how you got it, and drawing attention might be harmful toward going forward. As at the very least someone is bound to find reasons for political Scandal.
Speaking of politics! The world has them, the domain and its neighbors have them. They cross borders and they push stories. So what could players expect in this? Well the most regular impact of this will be local, because as many have said Seattle is a frontier town, one of a number throughout the Cam, where kindred can boom or bust with seemingly equal probability. This is something kindred local and abroad keep in mind, on who wants to come here, who wants to dedicate resources, who wants to send what aid to contacts and allies for instance.
What does that mean to me? It means that perhaps standing in Seattle doesn’t quite matter as much to people in Paris or London for instance as if from a more established domain. Likewise a visiting Parisian “Noble” probably is not seen to have as practical of standing here locally either. Think about it like the established cities in America and the Wild West, the value statements of standing were greatly Different. Most clans would probably see it a promotion for a Primogen of Seattle to be offered a whip position in Paris, as an example. That being said, on the surface a Prince is a prince is a Prince no matter the domain.
A great comparison to this was referring to Seattle is like Deep Space nine, where a great number of things come together, and oversight is a bit more lax than it might otherwise be in the core of the sect. Travelers move through, ideas are shared and “interesting” things seem to happen and be pulled towards it.
So what sorts of plots can politics drive? My short list so far is as follows;
World Plots
•Jyhad
•Inter-Sect
•Intra-Sect
•Clans: Mostly this is intra-sect. But clans must have some vested interest in supporting people here.
City Plots
•Kindred
•Kine
•Visiting
In looking at these, they break down some. First, given a majority of the game is not overly involved in Jyhad level plots that same level of involvement is likely to come back to the domain directly. Inter-sect, for Seattle this primary means conflicts with the Sabbat and the Kindred of the East for the bigger scale, and interaction with the Giovanni, and Anarchs in a more day to day common level. There’s actions might be combat, or just the moving of pieces and resource, or figuring out how the game (Or individuals) want to deal with such things, some might have differing ideas as to what is best to be done. These plots and politics are likely to be on going things that players can influence and change.
Intra-Sect politics and plots are a huge corner stone of things. A big part of this aspect is Clan Politics. Clans have goals and interests. Seattle has some part in that. Sometimes it might be mundane seeming, other times not so much. I LOVED the politicking that happened at the Masquerade under Sean, where the Brujah were against the Tremere trying to find political backing in their goal of Praxis in a North West Territory. These sorts of ongoing plots bring clans together, asking some level of unity in what might otherwise be clans that don’t always find unity. It brings splitting points as otherwise allies might find themselves in conflict based on this sort of thing. It might also be reflected in those that have clans outside their own as allies and contacts, as those sorts of people expect some return of their own… (More on that elsewhere). Sometimes there might even be involved in clan politics like power struggles… but likely always connected to Seattle in some way (The area Tremere Lord for instance)
Let me give an example of the sort of lot I am thinking; The Ventrue at large have an interest in seeing the Coal line established between Canada (Vancouver) and Olympia. The Ventrue locally are asked to handle things from a bit beyond the northern area of Seattle, though say the southern end of Tacoma. At the same time the Gangrel learn that this would go right through a Caern. The Toreador have heard a bit about it as well, and the leadership there would like to get some pay, or if nothing else set up the Ventrue for scandal. This sort of thing will be going on at the same time as the Nos might be involved in needing to get some rights to ensure a new internet trunk line is established, but the Malkies think it wil stir up all the spiders and there will be webs everywhere if the interwebs goes through. So how does who support who? All of this will have a timeline of a month or three each of mild twists and turns, interplayer politicking and the like.
For am more local turn there is of course the Kindred level of things, represented by our Players. “Local” npc’s will as usual be kept to a minimum. The fluxing flow of players can make the city big, or it can suffer some in the population as characters find reasons to leave the borderlands. So, that’s hard for me to quantify because much of that is in the hands of players. How they localize other plots that might come to them, their own personal goals. These of course are a huge portion of the tales to be told.
The Mortals (Or Kine as I so politely referred to them as prior) also have their own actions ever on going. Most of these won’t be as detailed as others. But rather overarching group goals that can involve players in that are active in those spheres, or change segments of the domain as the city changes and grows. Likely some of these groups are going to be at conflict with one another, with Kindred involvement able to often turn the course of these actions for those that wish to be involved in mortal world.
Outside of the political (Though sometimes these will be political in nature) there are two other primary plot points that I can see;
Player Plots
•Flaws
•Growth
I am sure there is perhaps other ways to break down player content, but these are the two biggest ways, and many connect back to the above as flaws may likely connect to the outside world, or at least locally. Growth is probably in one of those two fields as well. Flaws might be the things on the sheet under that heading, or they might just be the interesting facets of your character that just come up sometimes. In the end, what things pursue you, and what do you pursue: Internal conflict needing resolution, Strife with your own history and the drama that can come with it.
In the vein of plots, you might have noticed me use the words “On Going” a lot. I do mean for much of this to be extended plots. Things that take time to resolve, in part because this gets people more involved and more opportunity for deeper story between everyone around. This also makes life easier on staff, by not needing 8 new plots to get people in and have them solve each week. By spreading those out over time, and giving more of them to overlap there should always be actions that players can be involved in. Likewise more can be involved then “Do ____ or the City Burns” sort of plots. More can be done over time and not crushed together with time always being of an issue.
Time, is another issue. Like the plots, the pacing of the game has gone at what has been described in game as being an oddity to the world at large. Everything goes fast, even elder plots, in Seattle. I think more pacing needs to be added to this. Some sort of learning times for sure, many of the things that are in game and timed can use something of an extension to how long they take. Letters might take some time to get a reply or reaction from (Though they should all get noted!), again more time can be used to add depth to all the stories we are involved in.
What other things am I thinking? First, I would like to address new character creation. Bringing it under more focus, putting back in some of the many restrictions to what can come into play with a new character. Of late it seems quicker to make a new character to get a power, or contact, or the like then to pursue in game. I am far more interested in the stories we can develop in game, then what stories might be given to justify things at creation. It also makes things far more equitable in their accessibility. Expect far more scrutiny into what characters might be admitted (Including a review of characters recently added). Where really amazing reasons would need to be present to justify anything but a Vampire or a Ghoul.
For those strange things acquired in game, be it traded or Story lined to get, keep in mind that it can gain notice. Notice for being strange is likely to have repercussions, and the stranger something is the more repercussion is likely. This might not always be a bane, but fragrant disregard for the status quo is likely to cause friction. This can have a lot of different reactions, it will not be a simple scale of “Burn it with fire” if noticed, but expect responses and involvement both locally and abroad.
There are a few other changes I would like to see. Each of these things would begin implementation on being elected for this;
For one, a review of custom content is in order. I have a few thoughts when it comes to custom creations. First, when creating something totally new, its power should be on scale with the weaker things of a given level to determine what level it is. This is not to say the worst (We all know those rituals that no one would ever take) but to say something should totally be a level 5, because it’s comparable to Lesser Trigger, is a poor argument to me. Likewise, when self-researching an existing power (Or comparable version) it should be less efficient then doing it oneself. For instance creating an existing ritual into a new paradigm should be at least one level higher, if it makes sense at all. Likewise Combo Disciplines, if someone heard of the concept of Lifesong (A Ventrue trick that’s Dominate 1 / Presence 1) and wanted to make it for themselves, they might find it harder than that. Why? Because most of these tricks have had generations of time to perfect them. Making them better, easier to power and understand. No this doesn’t mean there will be 100 ways of each of these. Once a version is decided it is how it will be. For example life song might add auspex 1 to the cost to create it in game, and that’s what everyone trying to do the same thing would need to have. This means it can be far more practical to seek out a mentor then it is simply create it by yourself.
Then there is Custom Content creation time and process. In that, one of the big changes to this is moving over all creation into the Craft sort of system. The Custom content will still have its timing on it, but be more story involved for most then just having to do checks and wait, checks and wait. What I am currently thinking is as follows;
Rituals, Combo Disciples and Businesses
•Level 1 = Uncommon
•Level 2 = Rare
•Level 3 = Ultra Rare
•Level 4 = Ultra Rare
•Level 5 = Masterpiece
The materials, the time and story all add depth to this. As the components stack up, simply purchasing will quickly run out of steam as many of these types on content are not normally for sale in an easy market. By the time you get to the components needed for a level 4 or 5 it is likely that but one person will not be able to get to the story easily.
As a staff, encouraging play that includes more people is a huge deal. It is hard to manage 1 on 1 staff to player time to fully get through the stories each player would like to be part of. How can we all have more content to explore, and story to build? By Sharing! More people involved in a plot, means more time that can be dedicated to players by a Storyteller in an efficient way. So a great way to get more time is to include more people.
So I am sure now that I am several thousand words into this, some people have questions, or content they would like to see explained better. I welcome questions, in whatever medium you like best. I might even remember some more points I had down the way and find I need to post some follow ups as well.
I look forward to hearing what might be.
My names Mark, most folks in the game probably know me as Marcus. Like a few other people, I would like to add my name to the list of people interested in helping the game be the awesome place it has been. More on that in a bit, as I will try to follow something close to the format that other folks have so far, meaning first is our bona fides.
Before we get into all of that though, let’s start with a very simple statement: This is not a reset platform.
Now, the bona fides; I was an AST for the latter half of Seans’ term recently, having a chance to run some story lines for a number of the players. I also was HST for the Demon spheres most recent attempt at re-incarnation. Add that with a lot of tabletop experiences. I have run a number of different style games, and played in even more. And I would like a chance to bring some of the ideas that I have to our long running Camarilla game.
I jump right to calling it that, because that at its core is what the 10-2 game is; Vampire the Masquerade – Camarilla game. Now by that I don’t in any way mean to exclude some of the areas we have in play (Anarchs, Giovanni, independents and occasional Settite for instance). They add a lot to the game, and I am glad we have them. But a mainstay of the Cam is its courts and politics. And I think we can grow a lot in that way, and grow it in game and out without resetting what we have done and been over the past years.
There is a concern that the game has lost its way and gotten way off track. I think it has just grown passed what people had established expectations for. Now, I don’t mean this in any one way, but the important part of that is I don’t think the players, ST’s or much of anyone shares the same expectations as to what the game is. There isn’t a shared understanding of what is going on locally or abroad. We each have ideas in our head, but when this conflicts with what others have in their head, it causes strife out of character as well. It raises frustration and anger when you realize you don’t necessarily know what to expect out of system, story, background and timing. I think a good deal of time needs to be spent to standardize these expectations. I plan to take some time each game, as well as pre and post helping connecting this together. Later on I will try to bring forth some of my ideas.
Last time I was running as an AST I had heard concerns that I make things Hard on the players, and I was a bit surprised by that, but in retrospect I can see where it’s coming from. I like getting players involved, especially groups of them, when there are plots to be part of. Finding a plot and bringing a power hammer against it… it doesn’t add a lot to the game. My goal in weaving a story is to get the players and characters involved, invested and active in what’s going on.
So what do I want to work on? Well, my platform is the next section it would seem. What are my thoughts along the way? First, a shared expectation that would need to be found, an answer to the question, “what is Seattle?” What is the setting of the game? Here are the thoughts I have had;
The World Is Real.
Seattle is not the center of the World.
Seattle IS the Center of the game.
Seattle is not the center of the World.
Seattle IS the Center of the game.
What does that mean to us? It means you can expect that the world will have a hand in the game, but it is not the place that every elder ever should be looking. Life happens outside of Seattle, but Seattle is the lens (The Main Stage) of our story. It does keep actions framed by the world, things that the Emerald Domain might accept something that could greatly offend the world at large. Breaking conventions that clans and organizations have established could have repercussions. This could be political backlash, gaining enemies or the like. It is this sort of communal pressure that helps keep this Ivory tower tied together, and forms a sect out of it through the norms that it expects and enforces.
Note this doesn’t change as much as it might seem to. This just highlights the grand Seventh Tradition. Most things are not a problem, if you don’t get caught. Learning say, a rare discipline will not yank eyes on you. However going around yelling about how you got it, and drawing attention might be harmful toward going forward. As at the very least someone is bound to find reasons for political Scandal.
Speaking of politics! The world has them, the domain and its neighbors have them. They cross borders and they push stories. So what could players expect in this? Well the most regular impact of this will be local, because as many have said Seattle is a frontier town, one of a number throughout the Cam, where kindred can boom or bust with seemingly equal probability. This is something kindred local and abroad keep in mind, on who wants to come here, who wants to dedicate resources, who wants to send what aid to contacts and allies for instance.
What does that mean to me? It means that perhaps standing in Seattle doesn’t quite matter as much to people in Paris or London for instance as if from a more established domain. Likewise a visiting Parisian “Noble” probably is not seen to have as practical of standing here locally either. Think about it like the established cities in America and the Wild West, the value statements of standing were greatly Different. Most clans would probably see it a promotion for a Primogen of Seattle to be offered a whip position in Paris, as an example. That being said, on the surface a Prince is a prince is a Prince no matter the domain.
A great comparison to this was referring to Seattle is like Deep Space nine, where a great number of things come together, and oversight is a bit more lax than it might otherwise be in the core of the sect. Travelers move through, ideas are shared and “interesting” things seem to happen and be pulled towards it.
So what sorts of plots can politics drive? My short list so far is as follows;
World Plots
•Jyhad
•Inter-Sect
•Intra-Sect
•Clans: Mostly this is intra-sect. But clans must have some vested interest in supporting people here.
City Plots
•Kindred
•Kine
•Visiting
In looking at these, they break down some. First, given a majority of the game is not overly involved in Jyhad level plots that same level of involvement is likely to come back to the domain directly. Inter-sect, for Seattle this primary means conflicts with the Sabbat and the Kindred of the East for the bigger scale, and interaction with the Giovanni, and Anarchs in a more day to day common level. There’s actions might be combat, or just the moving of pieces and resource, or figuring out how the game (Or individuals) want to deal with such things, some might have differing ideas as to what is best to be done. These plots and politics are likely to be on going things that players can influence and change.
Intra-Sect politics and plots are a huge corner stone of things. A big part of this aspect is Clan Politics. Clans have goals and interests. Seattle has some part in that. Sometimes it might be mundane seeming, other times not so much. I LOVED the politicking that happened at the Masquerade under Sean, where the Brujah were against the Tremere trying to find political backing in their goal of Praxis in a North West Territory. These sorts of ongoing plots bring clans together, asking some level of unity in what might otherwise be clans that don’t always find unity. It brings splitting points as otherwise allies might find themselves in conflict based on this sort of thing. It might also be reflected in those that have clans outside their own as allies and contacts, as those sorts of people expect some return of their own… (More on that elsewhere). Sometimes there might even be involved in clan politics like power struggles… but likely always connected to Seattle in some way (The area Tremere Lord for instance)
Let me give an example of the sort of lot I am thinking; The Ventrue at large have an interest in seeing the Coal line established between Canada (Vancouver) and Olympia. The Ventrue locally are asked to handle things from a bit beyond the northern area of Seattle, though say the southern end of Tacoma. At the same time the Gangrel learn that this would go right through a Caern. The Toreador have heard a bit about it as well, and the leadership there would like to get some pay, or if nothing else set up the Ventrue for scandal. This sort of thing will be going on at the same time as the Nos might be involved in needing to get some rights to ensure a new internet trunk line is established, but the Malkies think it wil stir up all the spiders and there will be webs everywhere if the interwebs goes through. So how does who support who? All of this will have a timeline of a month or three each of mild twists and turns, interplayer politicking and the like.
For am more local turn there is of course the Kindred level of things, represented by our Players. “Local” npc’s will as usual be kept to a minimum. The fluxing flow of players can make the city big, or it can suffer some in the population as characters find reasons to leave the borderlands. So, that’s hard for me to quantify because much of that is in the hands of players. How they localize other plots that might come to them, their own personal goals. These of course are a huge portion of the tales to be told.
The Mortals (Or Kine as I so politely referred to them as prior) also have their own actions ever on going. Most of these won’t be as detailed as others. But rather overarching group goals that can involve players in that are active in those spheres, or change segments of the domain as the city changes and grows. Likely some of these groups are going to be at conflict with one another, with Kindred involvement able to often turn the course of these actions for those that wish to be involved in mortal world.
Outside of the political (Though sometimes these will be political in nature) there are two other primary plot points that I can see;
Player Plots
•Flaws
•Growth
I am sure there is perhaps other ways to break down player content, but these are the two biggest ways, and many connect back to the above as flaws may likely connect to the outside world, or at least locally. Growth is probably in one of those two fields as well. Flaws might be the things on the sheet under that heading, or they might just be the interesting facets of your character that just come up sometimes. In the end, what things pursue you, and what do you pursue: Internal conflict needing resolution, Strife with your own history and the drama that can come with it.
In the vein of plots, you might have noticed me use the words “On Going” a lot. I do mean for much of this to be extended plots. Things that take time to resolve, in part because this gets people more involved and more opportunity for deeper story between everyone around. This also makes life easier on staff, by not needing 8 new plots to get people in and have them solve each week. By spreading those out over time, and giving more of them to overlap there should always be actions that players can be involved in. Likewise more can be involved then “Do ____ or the City Burns” sort of plots. More can be done over time and not crushed together with time always being of an issue.
Time, is another issue. Like the plots, the pacing of the game has gone at what has been described in game as being an oddity to the world at large. Everything goes fast, even elder plots, in Seattle. I think more pacing needs to be added to this. Some sort of learning times for sure, many of the things that are in game and timed can use something of an extension to how long they take. Letters might take some time to get a reply or reaction from (Though they should all get noted!), again more time can be used to add depth to all the stories we are involved in.
What other things am I thinking? First, I would like to address new character creation. Bringing it under more focus, putting back in some of the many restrictions to what can come into play with a new character. Of late it seems quicker to make a new character to get a power, or contact, or the like then to pursue in game. I am far more interested in the stories we can develop in game, then what stories might be given to justify things at creation. It also makes things far more equitable in their accessibility. Expect far more scrutiny into what characters might be admitted (Including a review of characters recently added). Where really amazing reasons would need to be present to justify anything but a Vampire or a Ghoul.
For those strange things acquired in game, be it traded or Story lined to get, keep in mind that it can gain notice. Notice for being strange is likely to have repercussions, and the stranger something is the more repercussion is likely. This might not always be a bane, but fragrant disregard for the status quo is likely to cause friction. This can have a lot of different reactions, it will not be a simple scale of “Burn it with fire” if noticed, but expect responses and involvement both locally and abroad.
There are a few other changes I would like to see. Each of these things would begin implementation on being elected for this;
For one, a review of custom content is in order. I have a few thoughts when it comes to custom creations. First, when creating something totally new, its power should be on scale with the weaker things of a given level to determine what level it is. This is not to say the worst (We all know those rituals that no one would ever take) but to say something should totally be a level 5, because it’s comparable to Lesser Trigger, is a poor argument to me. Likewise, when self-researching an existing power (Or comparable version) it should be less efficient then doing it oneself. For instance creating an existing ritual into a new paradigm should be at least one level higher, if it makes sense at all. Likewise Combo Disciplines, if someone heard of the concept of Lifesong (A Ventrue trick that’s Dominate 1 / Presence 1) and wanted to make it for themselves, they might find it harder than that. Why? Because most of these tricks have had generations of time to perfect them. Making them better, easier to power and understand. No this doesn’t mean there will be 100 ways of each of these. Once a version is decided it is how it will be. For example life song might add auspex 1 to the cost to create it in game, and that’s what everyone trying to do the same thing would need to have. This means it can be far more practical to seek out a mentor then it is simply create it by yourself.
Then there is Custom Content creation time and process. In that, one of the big changes to this is moving over all creation into the Craft sort of system. The Custom content will still have its timing on it, but be more story involved for most then just having to do checks and wait, checks and wait. What I am currently thinking is as follows;
Rituals, Combo Disciples and Businesses
•Level 1 = Uncommon
•Level 2 = Rare
•Level 3 = Ultra Rare
•Level 4 = Ultra Rare
•Level 5 = Masterpiece
The materials, the time and story all add depth to this. As the components stack up, simply purchasing will quickly run out of steam as many of these types on content are not normally for sale in an easy market. By the time you get to the components needed for a level 4 or 5 it is likely that but one person will not be able to get to the story easily.
As a staff, encouraging play that includes more people is a huge deal. It is hard to manage 1 on 1 staff to player time to fully get through the stories each player would like to be part of. How can we all have more content to explore, and story to build? By Sharing! More people involved in a plot, means more time that can be dedicated to players by a Storyteller in an efficient way. So a great way to get more time is to include more people.
So I am sure now that I am several thousand words into this, some people have questions, or content they would like to see explained better. I welcome questions, in whatever medium you like best. I might even remember some more points I had down the way and find I need to post some follow ups as well.
I look forward to hearing what might be.
