Combat Contest

[Deleted]

I had a question regarding the combat contest coming up. While I won't be there, I found some rules that I thought were pretty interesting and figured they would be perfect for this setting.

As discussed on p. 44, Brujah who fight in
organized bashes report that it is slightly easier
to resist frenzy afterwards. The downside is
that you and your opponent have to beat the
crap out of each other to gain the benefits.
System: To gain the desired benefits, the
Brujah must engage in a hand-to-hand brawl
with another combatant in front of a cheering
audience during an organized bash. The
benefits arise from the psychological effects of
fighting in front of a crowd.

The player notes how many levels of lethal
damage were inflicted on both the Brujah and
her opponent. The lesser number of wounds
is the amount by which the difficulty of the
Brujah’s frenzy rolls is reduced (to a minimum
of 3). The greater number of wounds is how
many consecutive scenes in which the Brujah
benefits from the reduction. Thus, to gain any
benefit, the Brujah must both suffer and inflict
at least one level of lethal damage. A fight in
which the Brujah casually defeats an inferior
combatant confers no benefits, nor does one
in which the Brujah is humiliated by a beat
down from a superior fighter who takes no
significant damage himself.

The combatants are limited to brawling attacks
that inflict only bashing damage, which means
that both participants must suffer bashing
damage levels in all of their respective health
boxes plus at least one more in order to
benefit. If both combatants are Brujah, both
gain the benefits of bashing.

-Pg. 51, Lore of the Clans

This is in regards to Clan Brujah and their penchant for violence. Will these be in effect for the upcoming contest?

[Tennessee Whiskey]

As the combatants will be fighting to first blood, this shouldn't matter. Since the aim is to draw first blood, I assume the damage type will not be bashing, so this shouldn't matter. I'm not certain if an "organized bash" is a specifically Brujah event, like a Gangrel thing, or merely an odd phrasing repeated, but it's likely this does not qualify, and doesn't matter.

Unless something goes awry with the competition, I would assume that this doesn't apply. You should ask the STs for a final opinion, and they don't usually check the forums.

[Oberon Gault]

Traditionally, clan-specific rules have been constrained to that clan. This is why a Toreador can't learn Burning Wrath, or a Ventrue can't learn Double-Speak. With V20 and the reset -- a clan's "goodies", system, build, etc. are that clan's.

Cherry-picking systems from other clans has traditionally, in most game systems, to a dilution of the value of that clan's abilities and a loss of flavor of setting.

But, as noted, system is a question for Storytellers. As previously suggested, these questions should be emailed to them, rather than broadly asked on a decreasingly used forum.

[Deleted]

Feb 13, 2017 12:56:20 GMT -8 Oberon Gault said:

Traditionally, clan-specific rules have been constrained to that clan. This is why a Toreador can't learn Burning Wrath, or a Ventrue can't learn Double-Speak. With V20 and the reset -- a clan's "goodies", system, build, etc. are that clan's.

Cherry-picking systems from other clans has traditionally, in most game systems, to a dilution of the value of that clan's abilities and a loss of flavor of setting.

But, as noted, system is a question for Storytellers. As previously suggested, these questions should be emailed to them, rather than broadly asked on a decreasingly used forum.

Are you IC right now? I can never tell, lol..

Guys, this is as much as a general question for the masses as it is a suggestion for the Brujah players. I wasn't suggesting a Toreador or any other Clan besides the Brujah could use this system. I was asking so the Brujah players could be aware of it if they weren't already and thought the contest was a good place to put it into action.

If the ST's read this or not is irrelevant. It can be asked about at session. Again, this is me bringing up the conversation.

I am pretty sure I am capable of doing that, but thank you for your concern and your suggestion.

[Tennessee Whiskey]

It's not up to the masses, though. It's ultimately a question for the STs.

[Deleted]

..One they can answer if the Brujah players reading this feel like pushing the issue.

You know, if they do read it. I heard it was a "decreasingly used forum".

[Oberon Gault]

Feb 13, 2017 13:54:20 GMT -8 @triple7 said:

Are you IC right now? I can never tell, lol..

I'm unsure how my reply could have been construed as in-character, but if you'd like to elaborate, I can take that into account when trying to answer your questions on the OOC boards in the future.

Feb 13, 2017 13:54:20 GMT -8 @triple7 said:

Guys, this is as much as a general question for the masses as it is a suggestion for the Brujah players. I wasn't suggesting a Toreador or any other Clan besides the Brujah could use this system. I was asking so the Brujah players could be aware of it if they weren't already and thought the contest was a good place to put it into action.

The question, as stated, was:

Feb 13, 2017 10:38:01 GMT -8 @triple7 said:

This is in regards to Clan Brujah and their penchant for violence. Will these be in effect for the upcoming contest?

This can be easily read as querying if the entirety of the combat will be run under the aforementioned Brujah rules, specifically from the question portion.

Feb 13, 2017 13:54:20 GMT -8 @triple7 said:

If the ST's read this or not is irrelevant. It can be asked about at session. Again, this is me bringing up the conversation.

I disagree -- Questions regarding rules, especially centering around combat where it can determine if a character dies or not, should be sussed out before any dice are even looked at. This should be brought to the storytellers, specifically, if any players are looking for these rules to be applied in part or in total to a given scene.

The 'default' for most Storytellers, be it in this Sphere, Game, or otherwise, generally trend towards "What's in the book", and the setting for the rules you quoted are for Brujah-centric "organized bashes", which would not be the scene that will be occurring in your absence.

Frankly, combat takes an excessive amount of time already. The approach that "It can be asked about at session" would serve only to even further delay/slow down a combat-centric scene, and cast into question any decisions that adversely effect pretty direct Character-Versus-Character interactions (As that is specifically what a character-tournament is).

Feb 13, 2017 14:04:13 GMT -8 @triple7 said:

..One they can answer if the Brujah players reading this feel like pushing the issue.

And they can do just that, yes. But it is generally poor form for someone to ask about rules that wouldn't apply to them -- be it (in this case) physical absence, or (again, in this in case) non-applicable circumstances. It (again, generally) tends to draw undue drama as it is often viewed as someone trying to run someone else's character sheet, and decide what they can or can't do while not being a Storyteller.

Feb 13, 2017 14:04:13 GMT -8 @triple7 said:

You know, if they do read it. I heard it was a "decreasingly used forum".

Your intended snark aside, yes -- the forums, on any given day, have the same 3 to 5 players as 'active'. If you have particular grievance with the words and replies I use, please address them privately to either myself, another Player Advocate, or the Storytellers. As one of those 3-5 active persons who check the boards, and as a Player Advocate, stating the facts and trends of the game is something that I'm expected to do.

[Deleted]

I forgive your misunderstandings, I see how you were confused.

Typically, I like to discuss the game as a whole, not just what is applicable to my character at the time. I like to know how things work for the future so I can help other players, offer advice, and gather a good ppan for future characters if I decide to keep playing.

[Oberon Gault]

Feb 13, 2017 14:22:42 GMT -8 @triple7 said:

I forgive your misunderstandings, I see how you were confused.

Typically, I like to discuss the game as a whole, not just what is applicable to my character at the time. I like to know how things work for the future so I can help other players, offer advice, and gather a good ppan for future characters if I decide to keep playing.

If your aim is to be helpful to other players, you'd do yourself a greater service by being more respectful and mindful of the words you use. I would further suggest verifying rules with Storytellers before bringing into question on a public forum when and where clan specific rules are applicable, as noted in my previous reply.

[Deleted]

Cool story, bro.

I'll keep that in mind. Thumbs up!

[Demir Dogan]

What I am guessing is the point of this discussion is that Michael is asking on behalf of Brett or Loren? Because it wasn't clear in the original post; it implied potential applicability to all even if that wasn't the intent.

Anywho, as a former Brujah player I can attest that the Bash mechanics have been offered to Brujah player characters in the past. It stands to reason that Brujah may, if they choose, attempt to organize a Bash to benefit from the Bash mechanics (benefiting Brujah characters only).

To Brad's point, though, that option should be established early and, if allowed, be conducted quickly first thing that night so as to not delay the tournament because combat in V20 takes forever.

[Deleted]

Oh, that's awesome, man. Good shit.

I was asking in general. I was reading up on the Brujah for a future character elsewhere and thought the mechanics were pretty cool. I figured with the upcoming combat contest it might come in handy for those Brujah who were participating.

Thanks, man. I appreciate it.

[RomulusGloriosus]

Whoa whoa whoa.

If Whiskey or Oberon have a personal issue with Rhodes, I suggest, as a completely and utterly neutral third party, that they maybe discuss that privately with a PA or Rhodes himself.

Because I saw this as a fun sharing of a rule, that is in no way cheating or really, in any way causing of a problem. I know Rhodes rarely makes it to game due to life issues and relies heavily on these forums as a social and gameplay link to ECC as a whole. If this was posted on the forums and nobody saw it at all it really would not hurt or improve the game. Is it a crime to be social or to discuss rules on the forums, as decreasingly used as it may be?

The harshness of the response was completely uncalled for. He did nothing wrong.

[Oberon Gault]

Jacob, first I'm unsure where you're reading into this as some sort of Character versus Player portion on Rachel and I's part. Additionally, that specific portion was offered, so I'm concerned you're responding from an impassioned position without reading through everything in its entirety, missing a fair amount of details... as your suggestion was touched on:

Feb 13, 2017 14:16:46 GMT -8 Oberon Gault said:

Feb 13, 2017 14:04:13 GMT -8 @triple7 said:

You know, if they do read it. I heard it was a "decreasingly used forum".

Your intended snark aside, yes -- the forums, on any given day, have the same 3 to 5 players as 'active'. If you have particular grievance with the words and replies I use, please address them privately to either myself, another Player Advocate, or the Storytellers. As one of those 3-5 active persons who check the boards, and as a Player Advocate, stating the facts and trends of the game is something that I'm expected to do.

I'm also unsure where you're coming from on the idea that there's cheating allegations being levied? Rules are listed in the book and on the website -- there's no tome of secret-rules that people in the effected groups have access to. Specific call-outs for what isn't allowed from content being listed on the website, as well.

Again, Jacob, please read through the thread in its whole. I think you're missing a lot of different points in this.