Post by David Price on Nov 26, 2010 13:38:45 GMT -8
I didn't want to do this but every time I calm down after seeing one of their posts they post another and bring me up as an example again. I'm not, however, going to add to the questions thread, so this can be its own little accusation thread if it wants to be (and eventually get locked and moved to the rant board because that's just how I expect it'll go)
To provide some context to my "Come up with it yourself..."
Jane, your character's derangement was based on Synesthesia. You came to me and said that your character had heard from Kaine's character that embracing one's derangement led to enlightenment. So you decided to go out in the city, roll around in mud, lick walls and surround yourself with sensations to see what happens.
I recall spending a decent amount of time trying to figure out what you wanted out of this. I got nothing other than "something". There were no other characters involved, there was no goal, this was purely "I want storyteller attention."
The thing about Malkavian insight is it's extremely personal. It's about what happens to the way you think. I can't tell you how to think. I'm not going to tell you how to play your character. So, yes, I suggested you figure out how your character would develop her brand of insight on her own. Because there wasn't anything I could add to that scene.
Chris - The reason I'm not upset that you, or a lot of people, went to Werewolf is because they're extremely different games, and they should be. Some people are going to like one world better than another. Werewolf is supposed to be the "We're all on one side, fighting the big fight against the overwhelming darkness." game. That _is_ the story you like. You belong over there. Stop being upset that vampire isn't that and enjoy werewolf.
Our vampire game is the only game I've _ever_ played in that has political opportunities in character. Where backstabbing and back room deals actually happen day to day. That's what I play vampire for. I don't need a storyteller for anything other than feeding checks and thaum rolls. And I think it's amazing.
I'm not trying to knock plot. I don't mind it happening. The big epic huge plots like demons attacking and pillars of flame on the bridge are a bit excessive, especially since they interfere with game for the people that aren't into that sort of thing. But smaller ongoing things like hunters or the occasional sabbat incursion, or even better the political or social injections from outside- those are great. But the thing is, all of these plots are things that you don't run into just by sitting around and waiting for them.
The thing that bugs me is everybody acting like plot and character development is solely the storyteller's responsibility.
Every werewolf character automatically comes with a long term goal- defeat the Wyrm. Awesome. You have plot. Go.
Every vampire character _should_ come with a long term goal. But it's not imposed by the system. It's the character and player's responsibility to have that goal. Arlo had a goal- beat the game. Price had a goal- reform the Tremere. The ridiculous, impossible goals that measurable progress can be made in- these are things that can drive a character for years and never need a storyteller. Make one!
Storytellers can help a player come up with these sorts of goals, but they should never make them _for_ you. I would've been happy trying to help Jane come up with something like that. But everything I got from that conversation was that she was just looking for something to happen because she was bored. If I was incorrect, sorry.
Licking walls is not a long term goal. Licking walls does not make plot happen to you.
Could I have spent more time with Jane and fixed the situation? Probably. Sorry for that. Could she have made a character that didn't require going to an ST and saying "I'm licking walls! Make something interesting happen?" Yes.
Could you guys have not used a new election as an excuse to bash the previous staff? Oh hell yes. Acceptable: "When you claim story is important to you, does this mean that plots for individuals will be given attention?" NOT Acceptable: "Aaron and Broney fail at making plot, how are you not them?"
To provide some context to my "Come up with it yourself..."
Jane, your character's derangement was based on Synesthesia. You came to me and said that your character had heard from Kaine's character that embracing one's derangement led to enlightenment. So you decided to go out in the city, roll around in mud, lick walls and surround yourself with sensations to see what happens.
I recall spending a decent amount of time trying to figure out what you wanted out of this. I got nothing other than "something". There were no other characters involved, there was no goal, this was purely "I want storyteller attention."
The thing about Malkavian insight is it's extremely personal. It's about what happens to the way you think. I can't tell you how to think. I'm not going to tell you how to play your character. So, yes, I suggested you figure out how your character would develop her brand of insight on her own. Because there wasn't anything I could add to that scene.
Chris - The reason I'm not upset that you, or a lot of people, went to Werewolf is because they're extremely different games, and they should be. Some people are going to like one world better than another. Werewolf is supposed to be the "We're all on one side, fighting the big fight against the overwhelming darkness." game. That _is_ the story you like. You belong over there. Stop being upset that vampire isn't that and enjoy werewolf.
Our vampire game is the only game I've _ever_ played in that has political opportunities in character. Where backstabbing and back room deals actually happen day to day. That's what I play vampire for. I don't need a storyteller for anything other than feeding checks and thaum rolls. And I think it's amazing.
I'm not trying to knock plot. I don't mind it happening. The big epic huge plots like demons attacking and pillars of flame on the bridge are a bit excessive, especially since they interfere with game for the people that aren't into that sort of thing. But smaller ongoing things like hunters or the occasional sabbat incursion, or even better the political or social injections from outside- those are great. But the thing is, all of these plots are things that you don't run into just by sitting around and waiting for them.
The thing that bugs me is everybody acting like plot and character development is solely the storyteller's responsibility.
Every werewolf character automatically comes with a long term goal- defeat the Wyrm. Awesome. You have plot. Go.
Every vampire character _should_ come with a long term goal. But it's not imposed by the system. It's the character and player's responsibility to have that goal. Arlo had a goal- beat the game. Price had a goal- reform the Tremere. The ridiculous, impossible goals that measurable progress can be made in- these are things that can drive a character for years and never need a storyteller. Make one!
Storytellers can help a player come up with these sorts of goals, but they should never make them _for_ you. I would've been happy trying to help Jane come up with something like that. But everything I got from that conversation was that she was just looking for something to happen because she was bored. If I was incorrect, sorry.
Licking walls is not a long term goal. Licking walls does not make plot happen to you.
Could I have spent more time with Jane and fixed the situation? Probably. Sorry for that. Could she have made a character that didn't require going to an ST and saying "I'm licking walls! Make something interesting happen?" Yes.
Could you guys have not used a new election as an excuse to bash the previous staff? Oh hell yes. Acceptable: "When you claim story is important to you, does this mean that plots for individuals will be given attention?" NOT Acceptable: "Aaron and Broney fail at making plot, how are you not them?"