New Crafting System

[Skir]

Crafting has received a substantial update. Please check it out and ask any questions you may have here in this thread!

emeraldcitychronicles.com/213286/179826.html

I'm happy to answer questions you may have!

[Kevin K]

My impressions:

Can you take the same Feature more than once? Eg, +3 damage for an Ultra-Rare weapon?

I like the effects of art. Can they effect feeding rolls? Eg, improves feeding for artist in month following a performance, or maaaybe for the owner by creating the emotion of lurve (or loneliness) in those that view it.


I'm really uncomfortable with the robot example. The abilities seem quite exceptional: I haven't seen walking gun-robots with human dexterity, ever. Masterpiece, maybe. But even ultra-rare? Yuk. Maybe this is intended to be humorous, but as an example of power levels it scares me.

I like the masterpiece rules, I summarize them as If you have max die pools (dex 5, celerity 5, crafts 5) it's a 1/9 chance (test up 3 times). Willpower 9 has 50/50 chance of success, takes 9 months to fully play out.

-Kevin

[Emelian Fantana]

When did we switch up what chart for weapons this game is using. I know I have been out of the combat character pool for while now. There are several people in play with str + 5 swords. Does that mean that they are all now considered ultra rare (+3 perks all to damage output)? When these were crafted they were not even masterwork or high quality what so ever. There were literally large clunky swords. The previous house rules had a much different chart that is no longer there but I printed a copy and can bring to game to show you.

Also, to what extent can tools be used? Can one be made for any ability? Ettiquet, accademics?

[Skir]

Kevin,

You can take a feature more than once where applicable, yes.

I'm glad you like the addition of art as a social weapon. We hadn't yet considered linking it up to feeding. I suppose you could hold a gallery opening for mortals and feed a lot in that scene. Extra blood you spend and pick up in scenes does affect your blood debt and blood totals.

I can use a different example if robots freak you out. In real life, robots are no match for, well anyone, really. I wasn't intending to refer to gundams or foot clan ninjas or anything - the slow, awkward bigger brother of the RC car that they use to scope out irradiated areas and disarm bombs with was more what I had in mind. Tools, not weapons. There aren't currently any robots that are a match for a regular guy with a gun, much less a celerity powered vampire. Perhaps I didn't convey the clunkiness of a base robot well enough. The thing I was describing was not a walking, talking gun-toting Robocop. More like R2D2 with better treads and a probe with tongs on it.

Your math matches mine on Masterpiece. It's very tough, but possible. It's the best around. I'm sure industrious players will find a way to make it work, though. After all, RPG players have been going to impossible lengths for magic swords for a long, long time.


Joe,

We switched up the charts about 12 hours ago when I made the post. Hence, new system. But really, its the exact same chart for weapons that has been up for at least as long as I have been at ECC, except I added a couple of things (Quick Draw for example). Other than that, it's identical.

As to +5 swords, no, they are not all considered Ultra Rare. That is actually how it was in the old system. Any +5 weapon was considered to be Ultra Rare and required that process to make it. Now, for 1-3 successes, you can create any base item from the material. If that means Class 5 Armor, that's fine. If that means giant greatsword at +5, sure. (I'm not sure what book that is in though.) Items in the book are thereby assumed to be already balanced, and additional features are considered to be on top of the base item.

I'm not sure what other chart you are talking about. It would have to be at least 3 years gone, though. I'd be curious to take a look at it.

The extent that tools can be used is really more up to you, than me. Can you think of a tool that helps you with Etiquette?

[Emelian Fantana]

I may be looking at the wrong page on the site then.

I went here ( emeraldcitychronicles.com/213061/214086.html ) to see the available weapons chart...it does not go as high as strength + 5 on any weapon type. Are just using any listing in any book for weapons now? There are dark ages weapons that do strength + 6 in some cases making a potential damage output at 9 (10 if the weilder had a manuever)

When fortitude was revisited it was to lower the deadly output of the game and allow for character longevity and reduce the desire for ambush one shot kills. "Any character, even with zero exp, can pump to all 10s in physicals, jump outta nowhere, and throw away his character to kill yours. In a game of continuity and roleplay, this is sort of bad policy." (from the fortitude revision post - www.vampst.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=vampoocrules&action=display&thread=14502 )

What direction are we going with?

And no I cannot think of a tool for Ettiqutte but there are now artwork pieces that give back willpower and add to willpower rolls. If I as a Tremere had a very beautiful wizard's staff does it make my Thaumaturgy (willpower) rolls better?

[Skir]

Note the 0 exp part of that. I wasn't saying in the Fortitude revision that offense should never be good, or that I would never do anything to help people have offensive options. The way it was back then, because of the way Vampires can pump stats vs the defensive options that where available, it means that even with hundreds of exp, it didn't matter.

Special equipment like this isn't something you're going to start with, and represents serious investment of time and resources. I don't have a problem with people being able to make interesting decisions to customize the way they perform offense. They should be able to do that, and this goes along with that.

The two issues aren't in opposition. Fortitude was about making an underperforming power perform like it should, and give defensive options that were worthwhile.

As to the weapons chart, the intent is that a "basic" quality weapon is an out of the book weapon. If there are more weapons in other books, I will go through them and update that page with the weapons that will be acceptable in ECC if need be. Look for that going forward.

As to the pretty wizard staff, no. The bonuses don't help discipline activations. I'll make that more clear in the document.

[Jeff]

Sigh, speaking as a character actively pursuing creation of a Masterpiece... I'm a little concerned that essentially there is a 50% chance that officially starting it will retire my character. And that is actually using legacy items ( MW tools that decrease diff by 1 ) to assist. The fact that Willpower can no longer be spent on Crafts is a bit disappointing, and that Leadership cannot apply to crafts either to increase dice-pools.

I would much rather it be possible to create only 1 masterpiece, ever, than to essentially have the rules so strict as to likely retire the character, and even if not, to cause the character to be shelved for 6-8 months.

I'd also be interested in possibly the ability to sacrifice things to increase the dice-pool, like sacrificing a permanent point of stamina from tirelessly working, etc.

[Skir]

The character is not retired. If you reach 0 Willpower, the process ends and you regain most of the Willpower.

[Kevin K]

And a derangement!

[Jeff]

Plus a complete loss of a 1 year project or more (when you include the time to get whatever super-rare component you were looking for), letting down everyone who helped you acquire it, a shattering of artistic vision, a disappointment that the beast will exploit, a reason to frenzy everytime anyone asks what happened, reasons to continue existing removed, and certainly every reason to leave the place where such a horrible and unsurmountable failure occurred.

[Ebenezer Smith]

Easy answer:

Don't fuck it up?

Either that or as part of the crafting story Diab down to 7th gen so you can add another 3 dice to your pool.

[Jeff]

Would it be possible to roll dice instead of making an RPS test? If a person brought the dice, etc.

[Kevin K]

Feb 14, 2013 11:12:56 GMT -8 Jeff said:

Plus a complete loss of a 1 year project or more (when you include the time to get whatever super-rare component you were looking for), letting down everyone who helped you acquire it, a shattering of artistic vision, a disappointment that the beast will exploit, a reason to frenzy everytime anyone asks what happened, reasons to continue existing removed, and certainly every reason to leave the place where such a horrible and unsurmountable failure occurred.

Sounds like a lot of story. Not every story has a happy ending. 50% chance is pretty good, really. You have a reason to leave if you want it, or you have a reason to stay. Blame someone else, get an enemy, try again, try to help someone else, or prevent others from trying themselves, claim you succeeded and everyone else is too narrow minded to see it....lots of other options to continue the story.