Proposed For Vote: Celerity and Full Defensive

[Sethron]

Full Defensive and Celerity:

At this point, the revised rules have nothing against taking a full defensive and then attacking in celerity rounds; full defensive allows a character to block as many incoming attacks as come to him, despite only using his main action. Our proposal is that full-defensive cannot be declared in conjunction with attacks for the round. As in V20, declaring full defensive will mean that you spend the entire round defending actions, including any celerity rounds you decided to take.

Before: Tammy Toreador declares full defensive and spends for 5 celerity actions. She defends 5 incoming attacks in the main round from different attackers (multiple attack penalties apply), parrying each of them at full dice, then -1 dice, then -2, -3, and finally, -4 dice, respectively. Afterwards, she enters into celerity actions and attacks 5 times.

After: Tammy Toreador must choose to either take full defensive or attack. She can still spend blood to use celerity actions to defend automatically, but cannot do the above. A full defensive uses the same rules (-1 die for each attack after the first)

This will be announced at game on 6/22 and voted on at 6/29

[Kevin K]

It should be noted that spending for celerity in defense is never a good idea. Since unspent celerity adds to your pool, you lose more than you gain. Consider:
Dex+Dodge = 6, Celerity 3, and 5 attacks.
No spend pool: 9,8,7,6,5 dice respectively.
OMG IM BEING ATTACKED USE ALL THE CELERITIES (spend for celerity 3)
all-spend pool: 6,6,6,5,4

*Except the few situations where dex isn't your defense attribute. Or if I'm confused, which always remains a possibility.

I'm not sure that this is a deal breaker, I just figured it was worth mentioning here.

[Jeff]

Thought this was already a rule per the book. When you declare full defensive, that is all you can do, period. That is why the die penalty is so small. ) pg 210 of main book...

"Rather than making defensive maneuvers part of a multiple action, you may declare that your character spends an entire turn defending. The normal multiple-actions rules are not used in this case. Instead, you have a full dice pool for the first defensive action, but lose one die, cumulatively, for each subsequent action made in the same turn."

Note, this is not a defensive maneuver, it cannot be aborted to, it has to be declare in your initiative order, and it uses your entire turn, which includes all your celerity actions.

And yes, Kevin is correct, in the new system it is never advantageous to spend celerity for extra actions if you are doing full defense. Though note, you spend for celerity at the start of combat, so perhaps you revise your actions when you hear 4 attacks coming your way. Either way, I really don't think it needs a vote.

But, just my opinion.

[David Price]

Yeah, this shouldn't be a vote, it's how game was and how the book is.

[Skir]

That may be, but in all my time at ECC (and to the recollection of everyone on Staff) that is not how combats have been actually run. They have been run as the above describes as "current," and we want to change that. This "change" whether you feel it is a change, would still affect almost every player in some way, and because of that, we want to err on the side of caution and allow a vote.

[Jeff]

Shrug, well, every combat I've ever run or been part of, has been run the way I mentioned. Either way, I'll vote to continue to keep this clarified.

[Shah-Khohr of Ventrue]

+1 to Jeff.

[Webmonkey]

+2 to Jeff

[Webmonkey]

Can staff please send me the final wording for this that they'd like up on the site?

Thank you!

[Webmonkey]

There is now a mention that Full Defensive doesn't allow for some combat actions and some defensive actions using Celerity in the Celerity house rules under: Play Hub>House Rules>Celerity

[Vincent]

please correct me if I'm wrong but if I read the wording on the site right, if I were in a fight where it was a one on one fight and my opponent was attacking first I could spend for 2 cel rounds and declare that my main round is attacking, during my opponents attack I can use one or both of my cell actions to preform a block or dodge (one per cel action). then my main turn takes effect and attack would happen?

[Ascanio Giovanni]

Ben - If you are not dropped in the hit from your opponent in this circumstance (say by successfully dodging with a Celerity action) your main action would go off as normal.