Demons: Let's Make A Deal Or Let's Just Kill It

[Galen]

((Please post questions regarding this thread here: www.vampst.proboards.com/thread/15690/demons-discussion-thread))

Hey all,

So due to a large amount of questions on exactly how to deal with the Demons that have been floating around Staff has come up with several methods for dealing with such creatures in the sphere of Vampire. The following systems and rules sets are going to be used for on a temporary basis and review by the player base as a whole. After a month of play test and discussion we will be having a player vote on October 5th to see if we want to keep them on a more permanent basis for this game. Most of what has been created has been taken straight from Demon the Fallen with modifications to fit into our game. While this thread will be locked I will start a discussion thread on the Vampire OOC boards to discuss these different methods.

At current there are no in game ways to deal with Demon the Fallen demons. While there already exist several for spirits, or demons in the classical sense (evil spirits), Demon the Fallen was never covered or given a method for resolution, so there rules apply specifically to these sorts of demons and have no reflection on the others and visa versa (You cannot use conventional spirit powers to affect Demon the Fallen demons). We as a staff feel that players should have ways of dealing with these kinds of demons and be able to include them in their own stories (Infernalism has always been something heavily dealt with in Canon much in the same manner as Wraiths) if they so desire, though this will always be a dangerous task.

In 1999 the barriers were stripped down around Hell allowing for several of these creatures to escape and wander the earth after possessing mortal hosts. Canon runs that this hole was never resealed and that demons can escape at any time. As a staff we feel that sort of Canon is fitting in a Demon the Fallen game, not so much in a Vampire the Masquerade game and as such will be running that Demons must be summoned forth from Hell and cannot simply walk out. (See Summoning later in this thread) This means two things; one that characters may attempt to pull a Demon from Hell for whatever reason, and two that once a Demon has been sent back to Hell he will need someone to pull him back out (This adds a little more finality to getting rid of Demons that is not covered in the Demon the Fallen book.)

So, first lets cover a few rules regarding Demons specifically so that everyone knows what we are dealing with.

Rules for Demons:

The Pull of the Abyss-

Demons are innately bound to hell, a place they were sent when the war in Heaven was lost and they were all punished for their 'betrayal'. As such, Hell is constantly tugging at them and if they lack an anchor to hold them to this world they will get sucked back, trapped once again.

Any Demon outside of its host body or outside of a summoning circle will feel the immediate and ever present pull of Hell. Each turn the demon will have to make a Willpower roll. The difficulty for these rolls starts at difficulty 4, and increases by 1 for each additional turn the demon is free roaming. Each turn counts as three minutes. If at anytime it fails one of these rolls it is immediately sucked back into Hell. A demon freed of its mortal host body may travel at a speed of 5+Willpower in miles each turn to attempt to find a new host, is invisible to normal sight and may not interact or be interacted with in any way.

Each turn after making it's Willpower test, the Storytellers must make a standard WoD check. If the demon tests up twice it is able to find a suitable human host or object during that time. At which time it may attempt to possess the new human host making a Willpower roll at Difficulty 9. On a botch on either of these rolls, the Demon loses a permanent dot of Willpower and may not make any other attempts to possess that person. Each attempt to possess an individual counts as a turn, but is made before the pull of Hell test.

Having been stripped of its host, the demon automatically loses a point of permanent Faith and gains a point of permanent Torment.

Objects may also be possessed in this manner, though they are equally difficult to find and equally difficult to possess. Using the same system for finding mortals, a Demon may attempt to instead find an object with which to possess and make the attempt at Willpower (difficulty 9) as per possessing a mortal. It will be Storyteller discretion as to whether the Demon has found a new mortal host or instead an object. Demons much prefer mortal hosts though and will only inhabit objects if left with no alternative (this is a generalization) and as such Demons inhabiting objects should be a very uncommon occurrence.


Possession-

There are certain qualities that must exist in a mortal host for them to even be susceptible to being possessed. Demon the Fallen lists them in more detail, but I will give a brief example of each so that the player base as a whole has a firmer understanding.

Fresh Meat - "Demons may possess mortals whose spirits have been eroded by despair, anger, addiction - mortals who have lost the essential spark of humanity that sets them apart from every other living thing." (DtF pg 81) In game terms these are mortals who've through circumstance or desire have allowed their Humanity rating to slip to 2 or below.

The Soulless - The brain-dead, comatose, or in a vegetative state. Though these people are not lacking a soul technically speaking, its tether has become so weakened it is much easier for a Demon to possess them.

The Insane - Mental instability makes it more difficult for a mortal to exert its Will in opposition to the Demon and thus allows them to be targeted for possession.

Free Will - And then there are the ones who are willing to flat out sell their bodies and souls to Demons in exchange for power. Some are just willing to give it all up.

Possessed mortals in ECC can never become ghouls and ghouls may never become Possessed by Demons. While Canonically this is not true, we believe this should never be the case in this Vampire the Masquerade game.


(More coming in a few minutes...)

[Galen]

Pacts and Powers Demons can Grant-

Demons have the ability to sell power and wealth, so lets take a look at that and what specifically can be gotten through Infernalism. It's a dark and dangerous road to tread but sometimes... sometimes the rewards for such can be worth it. By making a Pact with a Demon an individual can be granted most anything, but not without cost. A pact is willingly giving something of yourself (be it a material possession, a cherished memory, your Humanity), in exchange for power or influence.

In Vampire the term Infernalist is used loosely to describe anyone who has had dealings with Demons, and while that may be the case that Timmy Tremere simply talking to a Demon civilly could be considered an Infernalist act by some, powers that are able to detect Infernalist taint would not. These powers will specifically be able to pinpoint individuals who have made 'Pacts' with demons for power, not someone who has had a chat with a Demon once.

Any Supernatural powers granted by a demon or anything gained through a pact will always make the person who has gained them to show up as an Infernalist. A demon may grant any of the powers they have access to including specific Lore powers (these will be weakened versions) as per Demon the Fallen book.

Through pacts a person may ask for favors that are outside of the realm of supernatural powers, such as money, influence actions, and anything that could be considered a mundane benefit of some fashion.

Through pacts a person may also gain access and the ability to learn anything up to and including paths of magic, abilities, knowledges, Disciplines, etc.

Players that learn something by this method will have the experience cost of such things reduced by 50% rounded up.

A pact though will always require some amount of sacrifice on the part of the person who is trying to gain something. This cost will always be at the discretion of the staff, though people may attempt to trick or manipulate demons in the same way they will likely do the same in return.

No matter the situation the person forming the pact or the Summoner binding the demon are the only ones who may benefit through gaining powers, knowledges, etc. In this manner a Kindred cannot have a ghoul forfeiting all the risk and passing on all the benefits to the Kindred. Material world gains though may be passed on to another individual. Abilities and Knowledges may be taught to other individuals, but Disciplines and Magics may not. These gains of Disciplines and Magics count as Dark versions of themselves and will manifest in appropriately demonic fashion.


Revelation-

Demons from Demon the Fallen have something called their Apocalyptic Form. By revealing and reshaping the hosts body they can reach an approximation of their true form, either terrifying to behold or awe inspiring. This form allows them certain unique abilities, the ability to soak lethal with their Stamina, something they normally cannot do, etc.

Anytime this form is revealed anyone witnessing must make a Willpower roll at a difficulty of the Demons Faith rating. Failure means to stand awed (or horrified) by what they see and unable to take any action but stand and stare raptly. If threatened by the demon, they will flee and rationalize what happened to them as a dream or hallucination. If they succeed on the roll, they may act normally and will be able to recall what happened in detail. Vampires may spend Willpower on this check, mortals may not.

(More coming in a few minutes...)

[Galen]

Methods for Dealing with Demons-

Okay so lets get down to the actual nitty gritty of dealing with these demons. First I'm going to give a brief outline of each and what exactly we are adding to this game for you all to vote on.

Summoning and Binding Demons -

There are examples all over occult texts and within Vampire of demons being summoned and controlled by summoners, either to gain power, to destroy these demons, etc. Whatever the reason there has always been demonstrations of such occult activities throughout Canon. Dark rituals used to call forth dark powers to do the summoners bidding and grant them all-mighty power. In reality this process is long, arduous, and dangerous. To the outside view this process reeks of potential infernalism, and will possibly cause some to view your character with suspicion and scorn.

Holy Ritae of Exorcism -

The movie 'The Exorcist' is a great example of how the church has always had ways of dealing with demons. This method is an extension of this idea, these 'prayers' while being used by the church do not necessarily mean one has to follow a specific churches beliefs. Through the use of will and faith anyone with the appropriate knowledge can banish, bind, and exorcise demons. This method usually requires more than one individual to perform at once but does not require the time and effort needed to learn and perform an actually summoning ritual (not to mention much less suspicious).

Ex Inferis -

The Assamites as a clan have long been hunting infernalists in their continued war against the Baali clan. As such, they have developed a Path of Assamite Sorcery to allow them to help them accomplish this task. While not being used to directly deal with demons, this path allows them to find, track, and hunt down the demons followers. Canonically this was always the case, though before there was no path specifically for this purpose.

(More in just a few minutes... )

[Galen]

Summoning and Binding Demon Process -

Researching the Demon Summoning/Binding Ritual -

The first step to any dark dealings is a ritual, a specific ritual that exists somewhere in the world in bits and pieces. Finding this ritual is an arduous task, but the more you know about the demon you are trying to find and summon the easier the task becomes. Below is the system for finding that ritual:

Intelligence + Occult (diff 9) Successes needed are based on how much information you have already.

20 Successes needed if you know the Demons House and Celestial Name
30 Successes needed if you know the Demons Celestial name only
40 Successes needed if you know the Demons House only

Each of these roles is a weeks worth of researching and may not be made at the same time the player is researching a custom ritual or Combo-discipline. ST Discretion as to whether the Summoning and Binding ritual are located together or if separate research checks must be made. In order even begin research of these rituals one has to have Demon Lore 4 or higher. These rolls are free to use Leadership and Occult Library. A botch on any of these rolls causes the diff for further research to increase by 1, a failure simply indicates no further progress.


Demon True Name Research

True Names have power, lots of power in the case of demons, as demons are in essence their true names. You can gain knowledge of a demons true name by watching them, studying them, reading about them, and a number of other sundry tasks. But each of these is only a part of that creature, to truly understand the full breadth of a demon could take someone months of research, study, and dedication. Since for a True Name to have power it takes understanding of that name and not simply seeing it written down for you, none of these checks may be accumulated with another player or gain the benefits of Leadership checks.


There are several ways to determine a Demons name, below is a list of examples of rolls that could be made to gather fragments of a demons True Name. All of these rolls are made at Difficulty 9 and successes made by seperate individuals may not be accumulated together. In this vein, Leadership may not be used to piece together these parts. Staff will make rolls for the player when requested if the situation is deemed appropriate. Total successes gained shall be kept secret from the player as the player should never know if he has gained the Demons True Name in its entirety. A player must have Demon Lore 2 or higher to make any of the following roles. It is impossible to botch any of the rolls for this.

Int+Occult - Looking through occult texts to find names of demons and matching them up with your subjects acts. Each of these roles is a weeks worth of researching and may not be made at the same time the player is researching a custom ritual or Combo-discipline.

Each of the below checks can only be made once per appropriate subject per person making the roll and may be done over the course of scene instead of taking a week to do.

Per+Investigation - Investigating a crime scene, looking for subtle touches that betray the criminals personality.

Man+Intimidate - Interrogating the demons followers, finding out how they address her in their blasphemous rituals.

Per+Empathy - Ransacking the demons Sanctum, finding her personal belongings and seeing what they say about her.

Per+Occult - Having witnessed the Demons Revelatory form. (Diff 6 for this roll alone)

Players are free to come up with other dice pools that the ST feel are appropriate for the situation.

Successes needed in total range from anywhere from 15 to 90 based on the Demons Eminence rating. The higher the Eminence of the Demon the more successes are needed to discover the demons True Name. 15 base + 15 per dot of Eminence the Demon possesses.

Once a player has accumulated 1/4 of the successes required they will be able to glean the Demons House, once they compile 1/2 successes required they will be able to glean the Demons Celestial name. STs will approach the player privately once these benchmarks have been reached. If a player accumulates 150% of the successes needed to gather a Demons True Name they will begin to notice redundancies and be told they have gathered the Demons True Name.


Summoning -

Now that someone has a ritual, they can attempt to perform it:

If a summoning ritual has been fully researched then the Summoner may attempt to summon the Demon to him. Every ritual will require a component that must be gathered for every attempt to summon that specific demon. This component is rare can be gathered in several ways including an Occult Influence Action of level 4. Once a player has completed the research for the ritual they will know what item is needed for the actual casting.

The actual casting of the summoning ritual takes hours equal to one hour plus one hour for each level of Eminence the Demon has. To perform the ritual the summoner must make a Wits+Occult roll at Difficulty 6. If the roll fails, the ritual doesn't work. On a botch, the mystic energies backfire catastrophically. If the ritual is successful, the demon is transported instantly to the site of the ritual, where she appears in her apocalyptic form. This causes the witnesses to suffer from Revelation. Each successes on the summoning roll indicates 10 minutes that the ritual circle will maintain unless ended early by the summoner.

While the Demon remains in the summoning circle they will not feel the pull of Hell. The Demon though, may leave the circle at anytime, though they will immediately feel the pull of hell. When the ritual ends or the summoner dismisses the demon, the demon is returned to where it came from. While in this form the demon will be immune to all Supernatural and Mundane powers, but in turn will be incapable of making use of its Lores. The only exception to this immunity is for very rare and hard to find rituals that some have developed. Demons aware of these rituals existences will attempt to destroy them out of principal.

During this time the Summoner and Demon may talk and make voluntary pacts.


Binding -

Most Summoners do not simply summon a demon to just chat, more frequently they attempt to Bind the Demon in question. This is a challenging and dangerous task for any Summoner but can reap amazing benefits.

The Summoner must know the Demons Celestial Name in order to even attempt this feat, though knowing their True Name makes this task much easier.

The Summoner and the Demon make contested Willpower rolls. The summoner has one advantage in this contest though, if he has assistants or acolytes participating in the summoning ritual, they can add their will to his. Each assistant makes a Willpower roll at Difficulty 8 and each success adds a die to the summoner's Willpower pool.

If the Summoner knows only the Demons Celestial Name, the demon receives bonus dice to this roll equal to her Faith rating. If the summoner knows the demon's True Name, however, the Summoner receives a number of automatic successes equal to the Demons Torment rating. If the demon acquires more successes than the summoner, the binding fails and the demon escapes. If the summoner gains more successes, though, he is able to bind the demon to his will for a limited time.

Each success the summoner gains equates to a command he can give the demon. These commands must be fairly specific and revolve around a particular action. "Protect me from my enemies" is too wide-ranging a command, where as "Kill Gideon Wallace" is more appropriate. The summoner could also command the demon to vacate a host, to grant the summoner powers or any other action that can easily be summed up in a few words.

A Summoner that uses this method to gain temporal powers from the Demon will count in all senses as an Infernalist in the same vein as having made a pact with the demon. Commanding a demon to do a task for you though will not reveal itself as infernal taint to the powers that can divine such. Though a Demon acting in your favor could very well lead folks to your door with pitchforks and torches calling for your head whether or not you are an 'Infernalist'.

If a demon is bound to follow commands, she must do so to the best of her ability and make the attempt as soon as possible. She cannot act directly against the summoner while bound, though once all of the tasks are completed she is free to attack the person who forced her to do such acts. She can, however, act indirectly against the Summoner, such as trying to persuade someone else to attack, and can work to subvert her commands as much as possible.

Once the commands expire, the summoner may try to rework the ritual to bind the demon to his will at a later date. Doing so requires subtle modifications to the ritual and is very risky. The Summoner makes an Intelligence+Occult roll (Diff 8) on the characters behalf, and must gain more successes than the number of previous binding rituals the summoner has performed with the demon in question. If successful, the summoner and demon go through the same summoning and binding process as before. If the roll fails, the binding ritual is ineffective, although the summoner won't know until he attempts to use it. On a botch, the demon becomes aware that the ritual is now ineffective, and he can feel free to wreak bloody vengeance on the summoner.

(More to follow...)

[Galen]

Holy Ritae of Exorcism (New Knowledge/Ritae) -

The Roman Catholic Church has used these ritae for centuries to cast out and rebuke the demons of Hell. Though this is true for the Catholic church, it has little do with ones specific beliefs. In fact through the conviction of ones faith and strength of will an individual with knowledge of these Rites may find, bind, and exorcise these evil spirits.

A player must have Church Lore 4 or greater to begin learning these Ritae.

These ritae only affect Demons (See Demon the Fallen) not any other kind of spirit. Each level of ritae is slightly different in its effect but they all use the same system and are rolled at Willpower (difficulty 9), Willpower may not be spent on these rolls. Each prayer costs a Willpower point to perform. Levels 2 through 5 are contested by the Demons own Willpower (difficulty 6). In addition, if the Demons Torment rating is higher than the prayer users Willpower, then their difficulty 9 becomes difficulty 10. If the prayer is successful the effects are applied immediately. This counts as a mental action. More than one person may combine their successes on any given prayer roll, though each individual participating must know the prayer being used and each must spend the Willpower point for activation. Each level of True Faith a character has is an automatic success on each of these checks. Each of these prayers may be used on a Demon within the individuals line of sight.

Level 1: Holy Blessing

Through this power an individual may identify the infernal and the taint it leaves on others. By infusing an item with their will and conviction to find these infernal beings they are able to locate them when within their presence. When in the presence of those infected with infernal taint, the item will begin to heat, and in the case of a Demon, set aflame. Though this power is inexact, it is helpful in identifying the infernal. If the item is visible to the individual with infernal taint it takes effect.

1 Success: The item will be set aflame in the presence of a Demon, this causes one level of aggravated damage to the user per turn, (this may be soaked with Fortitude only).

3 Success: The item will become red hot in the presence of an individual who has gained supernatural powers from a Demon. This causes one level of lethal damage to the user per turn (this may be soaked normally).

5 Success: The item will heat slightly in the presence of an individual who has gained mundane benefits as part of a Pact with a Demon. This causes one level of bashing damage to the user per turn (this may be soaked normally).

The item remains blessed for a number of hours equal to the prayer users Willpower before the blessing wears off.


Level 2: Banishment

A successful prayer of banishment forces the demon to flee the area. The demon may not return to the site for a number of hours equal to her Torment score.


Level 3: Abjuration

The prayer of abjuration can be used to bar a demon from entering a given area. The prayer can cover an area in yards radius equal to the players Willpower (multiple individuals may combine their Willpower scores for the radius, though each must take part in the prayer and spend the Willpower point), and if successful, the demon may not enter for a number of hours equal to her Torment score.


Level 4: Binding

The prayer of binding roots the demon to the ground, trapping him as long as the individual continues her prayer. The demon cannot move from the spot by physical or supernatural means of any kind, but he can still perform other evocations, throw things or take other such actions. The demon remains trapped as long as the individual is able to continue her prayer, a Willpower roll (diff 6) must be made every hour to maintain concentration.


Level 5: Exorcism

The prayer of exorcism is an ordeal of faith intended to drive a demon from its host. To successfully perform this prayer, the individual must win a number of resisted rolls greater than the demon's permanent Faith rating. This is an exceedingly tasking process and each time the demon wins the contested roll each person invoking the prayer must spend a point of Willpower to continue. One roll may be performed per hour, so an exorcism performed against a demon with a permanent Faith rating of 5 would require a minimum of 5 hours to complete. If successful, the demon is forced from his mortal host and may not reenter it, forcing him to find another suitable vessel or risk being pulled back into Hell. Of course, the demon isn't compelled to remain in the area and be exorcised, so unless the fallen is physically incapacitated, he may simply attempt to leave. An exorcism is usually performed simultaneously with a prayer of binding, though this requires multiple people to work in unison.

[Galen]

Ex Inferis (Assamite Sorcery)
[This source is a modification of a home brew system created online on a fansite: www.assamites.com/exinferis.htm]

The exact origins of this path of Assamite Sorcery are obscured in the mists of time. Some say that Al-Ashrad developed it after the clan's warrior caste's curse at the hands of the Baali. Other rumors are told that this path was incepted by an infernalist Sorcerer who managed to break his bonds of demonic slavery. Regardless of its origins, this path has become widely spread among the clan's blood magicians.

The path uses the same system as other Assamite Sorcery: the player rolls the Sorcerer's Willpower against a difficulty of the path's level + 3. Botches on this path usually result in fierce infernal retribution against the Sorcerer.


1) Pervideo

Before you can fight the taint of the infernal, you must first find it. The first level of the Ex Inferis path enables the Sorcerer to locate infernalists in his vincinity. This power counts as a means of supernatural perception, thus enabling the Sorcerer to pierce Obfuscate and other cloaking powers in the same way as Auspex.

System: Upon successful activation of this power the player may make attempts to sense and pinpoint nearby infernalists. For each success on the activation roll this power remains active for one minute. This sensory application allows the Assamite to potentially locate an infernalist no matter the methods used of obscuring his nature or presence. While this power is active the Assamite may make Perception+Occult rolls at a difficulty of the highest Willpower of any infernalists present. If there are no infernalists within line of site of the Assamite this power will have no effect. Successes on the Perception+Occult roll determine how accurate the ability to pinpoint an individual is and will only ever target the infernalist with the highest Willpower. Auspex may not be used to lower the difficulty of this check, as Auspex has no ability to detect the taint of the infernal. Each of these checks requires a minute of concentration in which the Assamite must stand still simply scanning the crowd.

One success will give the Sorcerer a vague indication of an infernal presence, while five successes will enable the caster to pick an infernalist accurately out of a thick crowd, and also determine the powers which the infernalist has gained through demonic influence.

This power will only detect individuals who qualify as infernalists in the same way as Coerce the Profane will detect. 5 Successes will be needed to be able to apply all the following levels of this Path.


2) Venatio

Infernalists that have been spotted rarely stick around to suffer their righteous punishment. As such the Sorcerer must have a means by which to track the infernalist. The movements of infernalists that have been discovered by use of Pervideo can be tracked by this power.

System: Once a Sorcerer has spotted an infernalist using Pervideo, he may cast Venatio on that individual. If successful, a trail of light indicating the infernalist's travelled path will be visible to the Sorcerer in exactly the same manner of the ritual Illuminate the Trail of Prey. This power may only be cast on individuals who have been confirmed Infernalists through the level one power of this Path (having acquired 5 successes on the previous power). The number of successes determines the duration of this awareness:

1 success - 1 scene
2 successes - 1 hour
3 successes - 1 day
4 successes - 1 week
5+ successes - 1 lunar month

While this power is in effect the infernalist will experience a continuous feeling of being watched.


3) Adversor

Upon attaining this level of the path the Sorcerer can invoke a warding sphere against infernal creatures. Infernalists and demon-possessed beings coming into contact with this ward will be expelled from it and will suffer intense pain, and even injury.

System: The warding sphere extends ten feet around the Sorcerer for every success on the activation roll, this sphere of protection moves with the Sorcerer. This power only affects Infernalists that have been identified using Pervideo. These Infernalists attempting to pass the warding sphere and approach the Sorcerer, or are already inside the sphere when it is cast, will need to succeed in a reflexive contested Willpower roll against the Sorcerer. If the infernalist wins the ward is broken. If the Sorcerer wins the infernalist suffers a number of health levels of lethal damage equal to the excess successes of the Sorcerer (minimum 1, may be soaked normally), and will be physically expelled from the warding sphere. The ward lasts for one scene unless the Sorcerer decides to drop it sooner or it is broken by the Infernalist.


4) Nominatim

The greatest weapon of war is information. With this power the Sorcerer can discover the name of the demonic patron the infernalist is enslaved to. This name can then be used for other sorcerous powers.

System: The Sorcerer must first have spotted the infernalist through the use of Pervideo, and must have a direct line of sight to the infernalist when invoking this power. The number of successes determines the accuracy of the information received. This power can be used only once per lunar month on an infernalist.

1 success - the infernalist's demonic master's nature will be revealed (Earthbound, Fallen, Bane Spirit, Wyrm spirit, Yomi Spirit, etc.)
2 successes - Nature and the primary name by which the Demon is known (This is their common name)
3 successes - Nature, primary name and a vague indication of the demon's power (Weak, Moderate, Strong, Otherworldly, etc.)
4 successes - Nature, primary name and an accurate assessment of the demon's power (Eminence Rating, Essence Rating, etc.) and House (if Fallen).
5+ successes - Nature, primary name, power, rank, House and the Demon's Celestial Name or in the case of other Spirits, their True Name.

It is possible for the Sorcerer to gain the information from intense study of demonic lores, using the clues that this power has revealed. Each success on this roll is added to the discovery of the Demons (The Fallen) True Name, per researching True Names section. This may only be used once per Fallen.


5) Periurium

If a Sorcerer has successfully discovered the True Name of the infernalist's demonic patron, the Sorcerer can temporarily sever the connection between the infernalist and its master, robbing the infernalist of its investments and daemonic powers.

System: If successful, the infernalist is unable to use any power (Investments, Dark Thaumaturgy) that was granted to it by its infernal patron. This power will only work if the Sorcerer knows the completed True Name of the Demon, if he does not, this power fails outright no matter how many successes were rolled.

The number of successes determines the duration of this effect:

1 success - 1 turn
2 successes - 1 scene
3 successes - 1 hour
4 successes - 1 day
5 successes - 1 week
6+ successes - 1 lunar month

[Galen]

Demons the Killings -

While Demon the Fallen does not cover final destruction very well (with the exception of being eaten by other demons), we feel that players should have options when it comes to this regard. Below are several ways in which to rid the world of a particular demon on a more permanent basis then simply sending them to hell. It should be noted that attempting these is a dangerous task in it of themselves. All of the below require the individual in question to know in its entirety the Demons True Name (see above on how to gather this).

After successfully binding a demon (see above), the summoner may force them to perform any specific action, this includes self-annihilation. This falls under the context of having the demon do a task for you and does not make it so that the summoner will be revealed as an infernalist.

By destroying a demons host body it frees the spirit of the Demon itself. The creature is invisible to normal sight and unable to perform any other actions except to find a new host body. During this time though, they are exceedingly susceptible to powers that effect spirits as they have lost their anchor to the mortal world. If the person with this power has a method of seeing this creature (the ability to see Umbral Spirits) then they may attempt to use certain powers that can damage or destroy spirits against these creatures. Powers like this exist in several forms of magic including Necromancy, Thaumaturgy, Assamite Sorcery etc. Note: Summoning Circles (See above) provide demons with immunity to these powers while they remain within them, and if the demon is aware that someone may have this power might simply allow themselves to be sucked back to Hell instead of being destroyed on a more permanent basis.

[Galen]

I would like to state for the record that these rules sets are for player discussion and to be tweaked as appropriate. They are a rough draft to be improved upon in the coming weeks, a base line of ideas and thoughts put together by this staff for players to discuss and deliberate on.

[Webmonkey]

What is the status of this rules change? Is this good to go? Has there been a vote?

Thanks;

- Webmonkey Chris