What I want out of a reset.

[The Mouth]

First, we have a huge 'legacy structure' that Sean and his team worked very hard on. We going to keep that?

Second, Mod Dot: Is that going to stay, or go? Can we modify something out of the NWOD model with cards?

Third: How do you keep attendance up while running down the current storylines? I've wrapped up games before and saw attendance fall. This wasn't a deep concern, but we got rent to make.

Fourth: How are you going to institutionally keep magic down? The anecdote; an event occurs in which wooji stuff is used; the 'magic' characters are able to see/interact with the event, the 'non-magic' characters wait for the scene to resolve in spite of their many dots they might have on their sheets. In essence, how do you make the characters equally relevant in those sorts of scenes?

Seriously. I OOC'ly funnel SL's to folks who are more suited to responding to the threat (Magic) or when they show up I abandon any interest in the SL because they can short cut it so fast with some rituals.

Okay, so I'm harshing magic. It's got some serious balance issues. How do you plan on approaching that in a reset? Is this, in your opinion, even a problem that needs addressing?

Fifth: Finally, how do you plan on transitioning the characters? Resetting XP to 0? New sheets? Old PC's can be recycled? Even the dead ones, because, well, reset?

As a related note, I believe any reset platform should include a more or less intact Morris Tobias. That guy is a damned institution. Jonas has played him well, and ably, for years. So, let him keep playing Morris, with all of his craft dots.

So, recap: Beyond the questions what I would like to see:

Something to address how magic, even benignly used, is a horror for staff and non-magic PC's. And how you can make that stick past your term.

Let Morris Tobias be as a nod to the legacy of the game.

Any possible changes to the core mod-dot system.

An implementation plan.

[Josh]

Thank you for your questions Ben.

---

First, we have a huge 'legacy structure' that Sean and his team worked very hard on. We going to keep that?



- I am not exactly sure what you are referring to. If you could give an example would be happy to answer.



Second, Mod Dot: Is that going to stay, or go? Can we modify something out of the NWOD model with cards?



- The Mod-Dot sytem is helpful in not having to carry around a pocket full of dice. Though with the advent of smart phones with dice roller apps there is little reason not to take advantage of that technology and bring failure and bothces back as a real possibility to the game.



Third: How do you keep attendance up while running down the current storylines? I've wrapped up games before and saw attendance fall. This wasn't a deep concern, but we got rent to make.



- It is trial to encourage people to continue playing nightly when their character may go early in the end of the world. As such I will be giving players a few options to determine how they want that transition to go.



Fourth: How are you going to institutionally keep magic down? The anecdote; an event occurs in which wooji stuff is used; the 'magic' characters are able to see/interact with the event, the 'non-magic' characters wait for the scene to resolve in spite of their many dots they might have on their sheets. In essence, how do you make the characters equally relevant in those sorts of scenes?



- Magic is a part of the setting and not the focus. It is written in great detail that even the "noble" Tremere that helped raise the Ivory Tower are subject to snubbing, poor deals, and otherwise kept only because of a deal made 500 years ago. Magic is supposed to be uncomfortable, untrustworthy, and dangerou; those that wield said magics are more so. I intend for there to be no where near the saturation of magic and in turn plots that are related to magic. Not to say I intend to punish or exclude someone playing a magic clan but such an aspect of the game is just that, a part and not the entire storyline. In terms of how to match a magic character in situation where magic is the key, get creative. I know there was a running joke about how Potence could mimic any power.



Okay, so I'm harshing magic. It's got some serious balance issues. How do you plan on approaching that in a reset? Is this, in your opinion, even a problem that needs addressing?



- Magic needs a watchful eye but it is supposed to be potent. It gets out of hand when you mix and match.



Fifth: Finally, how do you plan on transitioning the characters? Resetting XP to 0? New sheets? Old PC's can be recycled? Even the dead ones, because, well, reset?



- The current idea is that you get 30% of you character's exp back. You keep your bank. As for old PC's they can be resued under specific conditions, dead or alive.



As a related note, I believe any reset platform should include a more or less intact Morris Tobias. That guy is a damned institution. Jonas has played him well, and ably, for years. So, let him keep playing Morris, with all of his craft dots.



- I have already spoken to Jonas. I think there may be something in the works.

[The Mouth]

Woots.

So, the Magic Thang:

Mix and Match is the default state of Blood Sorcery; over time, between rituals and paths, it turns the magic doodz into guys that the 'social stigma' rules would apply to into monster of death and nearly limitless suxx pools. Key path for the God Awful crack smoking brokeness? Focused Mind. - It does so many good things that stack with so many other system/abilities/disciplines.

Staff is the primary arbiter of the 'outside world' and successive staffs have struggled with the Magic Doodz questions; it becomes akin to financial regulations. It is a process that has more material printed for it that anyone knows what to do with that a few people are highly expert in exploiting; the people trying to regulate it are not really all that expert in the process and even when they are it is like making the Wall Street guys in charge of financial regulation.

Okay, so, not nearly so corrupt as that. Most of the Magic Doodz on staffs have been pretty awesome. But my observation has been that the only canon thing that is done with magic is the 'Do not teach to anyone not in the club'.

Examples of rules that Sean and other staffs have made? See the House Rules. Pick one at random. Odds are Sean reviewed it. But, for example, businesses, feeding, discipline clarification, the possible creation of wraiths, etc.

[Mike Lohmann]

Jun 10, 2014 16:27:52 GMT -8 The Mouth said:

First, we have a huge 'legacy structure' that Sean and his team worked very hard on. We going to keep that?

The majority of what Sean's staff seemed to do, was clear up as many questions as possible. But the sheer volume of information he clarified, was in the idea that were were and are using a system that is blending 2nd Edition, 3rd Edition revised, Dark Ages, v20, and just straight up house created things.

I like alot of what he did, and would like to keep as much of it as I could, because I am respectful to the work he put in and the clarifications that he and his staff helped proved. Decades of questions, answered in ways that make sense. But this does conflict with the idea of simplification, unless we choose to use the same setup for rules that we have.

I plan on taking v20, as seemingly does Josh, and making it the core. Stay as strict to the core, as is possible, with player voted changes if changes are needed to promote fairness. I like the changes with the core physical disciplines, but if the game doesnt want the changes to stay, then they wont. Things like this. In swapping over to v20 pure, alot of the changes he made to our house system will stay as they are simply clarifications of what is already v20 items.

Second, Mod Dot: Is that going to stay, or go? Can we modify something out of the NWOD model with cards?

I think mod dot is great. Swapped from Cam to Mod dot and find it to be 100 times better. The greatest unspoken (I think) benefit of MOD dot, is that it is easy to transition from table top to it, and back again. How awesome is that? Online or table top players can show up, jump in, with hardly much to learn at all in terms of system. Then new players who are larpers, and just sit down in a v20 table top session or even revised... even if they have never done it before, and know what is going on. I think it promotes unity and uniformity, personally. Sure, everything can be improved on and there is always a better options somewhere about something... but is it really needed to change? I dont think so. It is part of who and what this game is and has always been.

Third: How do you keep attendance up while running down the current storylines? I've wrapped up games before and saw attendance fall. This wasn't a deep concern, but we got rent to make.

I think that attendance falling is so many parts and reasons, that having it stay high or not fluctuate is probably an impossible thing. You can make the game as enticing as possible, but some people just have LIFE happen. Job stuff, personal stuff, changing of season... whatever... it happens. How do you make the game enticing? Give players, new and old, a chance and tell great and fun stories. Sure, that is a bit of a generality and everyone says they want to do it, but alot of stories these days DO get roflstomped by a guy with the most magic or disciplines. That isnt fun. That doesnt promote unity. Sure, it happens from time to time... but I want the game to be more about everyone has a role they fill, and nearly all situations will require that role. You do this by dialing power scales way back, which makes people want to focus on what they are good at. The differences between each character are what promote roleplay. I feel that is lacking. You bring back the ability to role a new character, jump in, be different in your own rights, and have the chance to be apart of fun stories and further enrich the history that the game already has... that is how you breath life into it and keep the players having fun and sticking around.

Fourth: How are you going to institutionally keep magic down? The anecdote; an event occurs in which wooji stuff is used; the 'magic' characters are able to see/interact with the event, the 'non-magic' characters wait for the scene to resolve in spite of their many dots they might have on their sheets. In essence, how do you make the characters equally relevant in those sorts of scenes?

Okay, so I'm harshing magic. It's got some serious balance issues. How do you plan on approaching that in a reset? Is this, in your opinion, even a problem that needs addressing?

Seriously. I OOC'ly funnel SL's to folks who are more suited to responding to the threat (Magic) or when they show up I abandon any interest in the SL because they can short cut it so fast with some rituals.

Very rarely is there a magic clan, that doesnt have muscle. Tremere, Cappadocians, Assamites, Giovanni, Lasombra (different type of magic, I know). There should never be a situtation where a single magic user can do all the work, because a rival magic user shouldnt be ignorant to the fact that they are squishy. There should be things, that magic users just cant get past alone, like a pack of brute with strong physical stats. Maybe one or two of them, but once the gap is closed, they are in trouble. Magic does provide alot of flexibility, but that too should be specialized. It used to be... certain tremere did certain magic. Its just not the case anymore.

Magic should not, and will not, be the key for all or even most situations. Its there to support or aid, but not be the deciding factor.

I do NOT believe in destroying magic. I DO believe on putting real limits on it, and how much of it is in game. I DO believe in repercussions for selling clan secrets, magic, power. Heavy ones, that make you think "is teaching this, really worth my characters life or ability to function?" I do believe in making magic users nervous to flex their power, out of what may happen if they do. "How" is yet to be decided, but I think that struggle and fear should always be the name of the game in World of Darkness. Especially for those that use magic.

Fifth: Finally, how do you plan on transitioning the characters? Resetting XP to 0? New sheets? Old PC's can be recycled? Even the dead ones, because, well, reset?

As a related note, I believe any reset platform should include a more or less intact Morris Tobias. That guy is a damned institution. Jonas has played him well, and ably, for years. So, let him keep playing Morris, with all of his craft dots.

As appealing as it is, and a fast track to bring some players back in... reviving dead characters is not on my list, under this platform. I dont mind looooooooose ties, with previous characters (myself, for example, I play a Gangrel that is technically the "brother" of one of my old characters... however he never met the man, had interations with them, not any real affiliation other than being sired by the previous character's sire so that I could continue the story of the NPC that was the sire, not the story of the previous character. The only things he knows about him, is what players and npcs have told him). Dead characters are dead, and as nice as it is to think about them again and have things you would like to do or change, there is no going home. Characters that are currently active, I promote to keep. There is nothing wrong with it at all, as I am not looking to destroy the Seattle and world we play in. Everyone across the board will be powerscaled down, and if doing that will mean you want to play a different character, I understand, and there will be no issue either which way.

I personally find Morris to be one of the pillars of this game. The longest running character, by far, and a prime example of a person that deserves to be as strong as they are. Not by vast amounts of xp, but by sticking through it all, having life or death situations.. and coming out on top for over a decade.

How would I keep Morris, Morris? Well... I believe the game as a whole wouldnt mind him being the only person to stay as close to what they are, even in a reset. He does not interact in pvp, he simply crafts things here and there, and has constant roleplay for the sake of roleplay. He doesnt take things that dont matter to his character and has had more xp fall off, than he has put into his sheet. Sure, there would need to be some form of regulations due to how drastically different in power he would be, but I would promote him to have a stronger position in the Cam itself. Literally. How strong, is yet to be determined or discussed, but it would implicate he would not be able to just freely hold the hands of players with lesser xp, in return to keeping his character as is. Something along those lines... again... very rough draft/idea.

So, recap: Beyond the questions what I would like to see:

Something to address how magic, even benignly used, is a horror for staff and non-magic PC's. And how you can make that stick past your term.

Let Morris Tobias be as a nod to the legacy of the game.

Any possible changes to the core mod-dot system.

An implementation plan.

I hope I was able to answer some of your concerns. Thanks for posting them.

[Shah-Khohr of Ventrue]

As my platform includes a reset, I'll include my thoughts to your questions:

Jun 10, 2014 16:27:52 GMT -8 The Mouth said:

First, we have a huge 'legacy structure' that Sean and his team worked very hard on. We going to keep that?

I have no idea what a legacy structure is. As such, likely not. The revisions he made to V20 rulings specifically will be reviewed and we will keep what is necessary to keep. The rest will be truncated.

Second, Mod Dot: Is that going to stay, or go? Can we modify something out of the NWOD model with cards?

Die rollers. NWoD is a system I am intimately familiar with, and their MET system is truly elegant. However, it is a single check combat system, and the mechanics of a single die do not necessarily translate to V20. While I have a system for this that I have bantered about in my head, I feel it isn't ready for implementation. We will have a sanctioned roller app. STs will make the relevant checks whenever character's well-beings are in question. Otherwise, most of game has phone and those that don't can ask STs to make their checks.

Third: How do you keep attendance up while running down the current storylines? I've wrapped up games before and saw attendance fall. This wasn't a deep concern, but we got rent to make.

Presuming the player base doesn't vote to just dump current continuum in favor of reset stuff, I would keep attendance by literally allowing anything for the close of game. If people drop off, hopefully they're come back for the historicals. If not, I'd plan on keeping the wind down as controlled as possible. I suffered the same thing in the cam and it wasn't very fun.

Fourth: How are you going to institutionally keep magic down? The anecdote; an event occurs in which wooji stuff is used; the 'magic' characters are able to see/interact with the event, the 'non-magic' characters wait for the scene to resolve in spite of their many dots they might have on their sheets. In essence, how do you make the characters equally relevant in those sorts of scenes?

My honest answer is that I don't think this needs to be addressed. The real answer is that magic users will be so rare by cannon, and I will strive to express cannon where they are so completely untrusted, that while PLAYERS might certainly know the mechanics of how thaumaturgy/sorcery works, the characters wont. Having magic will be a hamper to your sheet in other ways; nothing in game comes without a price.

Fifth: Finally, how do you plan on transitioning the characters? Resetting XP to 0? New sheets? Old PC's can be recycled? Even the dead ones, because, well, reset?

A reset is a reset. Everyone loses everything and we start fresh. I will develop the demographics that I want game to have (say... 70% neonates, 20% ancillae, 10% elders) and will put beads in a bag to represent that demographic. Everyone draws lots. What you draw is what you can play.

STs stepping into game from current staff will be given a 'free' bead to represent their ST gift. This will be made more clear if I'm elected, but there will be a very clean and balanced way of handling initial character creation.

As a related note, I believe any reset platform should include a more or less intact Morris Tobias. That guy is a damned institution. Jonas has played him well, and ably, for years. So, let him keep playing Morris, with all of his craft dots.

I have no darlings. Morris Tobias goes along with everyone else.

-Rob.

[The Mouth]

So, here is my thinking:

Any system/rule/kool powerz is a means by which an exploit can be created.

'Rarity' does not effect the above.

No does 'social pressures'.

In fact, each 'Magic Vamp' flavor is pretty damned awful from a play next to it stand point, on its own. Because the magic, no matter the style or flavor, opens up options for exploitation whereas the non-magic vamps are on a greatly restricted track in comparison.

That is not to say that with creativity and skill the standard track guys can't be effective. It's that the magic guys can get access to the common pool of disciplines that the non-magic guys and magic. That's an edge, that with a couple of hundred XP, gets pretty damned awful.

Then comes the stat stacking, the weakness removal, the research into new powers (exploits), etc. Things that would alleviate some of that for me? Limiting the number/level of rituals that can in use by a single character at a given time would go a long ways to reducing some of the goofiness.

Honestly? Being able to use things like backgrounds (Influence, allies, contacts, mortals yo) to grind an opponents resources down? To reduce their access to blood, allies, friends, and the like? That would do a lot for me.

[Shah-Khohr of Ventrue]

I was out of town. Allow me to reply to your concerns

Jun 21, 2014 13:15:27 GMT -8 The Mouth said:

So, here is my thinking:

Any system/rule/kool powerz is a means by which an exploit can be created.

'Rarity' does not effect the above.

No does 'social pressures'.

This is the classic 'But Tremere don't have a Clan Flaw' argument. There will be social pressures. Magical results won't have the same weight as other results. The world that magic can effect will be largely reduced. Further, rarity directly addresses this concern. The reason why magic feels so overwhelming now is because everyone has it and has hundreds of XP to dump into it. Both of these will be greatly truncated on my platform. The 'legacy chantry/library' will go away. There won't be untouchable warrens or chantries that have benefited from dozens of characters that aren't in play any more, and the players who ARE playing magical concepts will have to work for what they get, not just be given keys to the library. Further, I am considering altering secondary paths to 'out of clan' costs of XP instead of a reduced cost. I'm running numbers.

The presence of Magic will be so greatly reduced that it won't be anywhere near the shock and awe that it currently is.

In fact, each 'Magic Vamp' flavor is pretty damned awful from a play next to it stand point, on its own. Because the magic, no matter the style or flavor, opens up options for exploitation whereas the non-magic vamps are on a greatly restricted track in comparison.

While I see how you came to this line of thinking, again, reducing its availability will answer this problem directly. Magic won't get you around obstacles, it will just offer another method they might be navigated.

That is not to say that with creativity and skill the standard track guys can't be effective. It's that the magic guys can get access to the common pool of disciplines that the non-magic guys and magic. That's an edge, that with a couple of hundred XP, gets pretty damned awful.

Non-Clan Disciplines will be limited in some way under my platform. We are play-testing specifics. The age of Tremere will maxed physical stats and custom exploits will come neatly to an end should I get elected.

Then comes the stat stacking, the weakness removal, the research into new powers (exploits), etc. Things that would alleviate some of that for me? Limiting the number/level of rituals that can in use by a single character at a given time would go a long ways to reducing some of the goofiness.

Honestly? Being able to use things like backgrounds (Influence, allies, contacts, mortals yo) to grind an opponents resources down? To reduce their access to blood, allies, friends, and the like? That would do a lot for me.

With the removal of new powers, keeping the 'schools' of magic strictly within themselves, limiting the WORLD access to these things (not just PCs), and reducing the number of rituals in the world (although a limit on how many you can access isn't a bad idea. Will evaluate), I think you have far less to be concerned with than perhaps you might think.

I am looking at a blood system to give you some of the hacks you are looking for, but I am going to be moving away from a system based method for some of this. I'd rather reward clever thinking than write a dozen page system.

-Rob.