Timeline of Last Week

[Alice Pisanob]

Yeah for Star Trek-ian time warps!

[Kaine Chandler]

"I specifically recall a 7th gen Old Clan Tzimisce getting pwned by a 12th gen Lasombra. It disgusted me. Lex is the worse system I've ever played. "

The thing is that in a fight of more than 9 people, if the 7th gen is distracted by enough 12th gens, one of them might own him, the idea i'm suggesting would only be used in mass combat AND it takes into account the power level and combat skills of all those fighting.

[Lady Daniels]

This is why I try to not play combat oriented characters. I abhor long and drawn out battle scenes. This recent hubbub has me reconsidering my next character.

Mass combat is a pain and in my mind, a waste, considering how SBC is set up. If we don't have someone [say Roney] to breeze through it so the game can continue, the game is gutted for the night. With only four hours to play, this makes it particularly hard to do anything when half the game or more is gone for the pow wow.

As far as I'm concerned, if you are not part of the mass combat, do not add yourself to it. I don't think there's a more direct way to say that than to point at people wanting to join in after its started and telling them to take a hike. If you're not already part of the scene, wave off. The larger a combat scene is, the longer it takes; even if you add just one person.

As Seneschal, I can't do a damned thing during these instances when I have orders from Goldwin to make announcements or other public decrees, because these things must be made known with a sizeable amount of the domain present; including the court. And with the way E is designed, Goldwin's wish is her command, and it is done with all speed. The domain is lucky to have a sufficient ratio of elders vs. neonates, the combat able vs. the non. Unfortunately, this screws me. Add to that the fact that I haven't be able to do much with E as an actual character, and you have a disgruntled C. in charge of running your city.


After last week, I am afraid I have to say: if there's a mass combat at the end of game, I will be going home once I learn about it. Even if I am required to be there for it, nobody listens to the Seneschal anyway. If there is a mass combat that ends up sucking half or more of the players, especially for past events, I will be going home. Mass combats shorten my patience, sometimes very quickly. And since most of my affairs are conducted with those who are likely to be in those scenes, it shortens the time I have to play. Thusly, there is no reason for me to stay when I could be at home playing EQ2.

Apologies to be long winded and bitchy. However, this is the only thing I do for fun outside the house and it hasn't been fun for me lately, not even 2xp fun.


A possble solution: lock down mass combats when they occur, to prevent snowballing. Try to not have them in the later half of the game. Hell, sort them out before game starts. And if needed, devote two or three staff to the combat; uninterrupted. Unlikely, yes. But one can wish.

[Lady Dagger Rose]

palevalkyrie said:

A possble solution: lock down mass combats when they occur, to prevent snowballing. Try to not have them in the later half of the game. Hell, sort them out before game starts. And if needed, devote two or three staff to the combat; uninterrupted. Unlikely, yes. But one can wish.

This is definately a good idea, and I wish it could always happen like that. There is only one way I can see of that combat being avoided without tests, and that route wasn't taken, so we were stuck with it.

I would like to thank those involved for not bitching too much when we asked you to come. I heard a little bit, but I think everyone realized that it needed to happen. Yes, it took forever, but we got through it in a reasonable time for how many people there were and the mass confusion that ensued throughout most of it.

As for the people outside of the combat...I'm truly sorry that things got so screwed up for you. If this could have happened any other way, I would have taken it, but looking back I can't see how it could have. Just try to remember that the ST's tried, starting at 8:30, to make sure it wouldn't take over game. Think about how Gorf feels having run that thing from 8:30 until 2. That had to suck.

Okay, my .02 is in, I'm going to wander off now.

[Clark Davis]

palevalkyrie said:

A possble solution: lock down mass combats when they occur, to prevent snowballing. Try to not have them in the later half of the game. Hell, sort them out before game starts. And if needed, devote two or three staff to the combat; uninterrupted. Unlikely, yes. But one can wish.

I like this idea, too, on a logistical front. One of the key points people seem to forget sometimes is Travel Time. Especially since rounds in combat go in three second chunks, if you get a call at the start of combat saying "Be there!", it may take you somewhere around 10-20 rounds just to run a few blocks over.

[Barnaby Cuthbert]

After last week, I am afraid I have to say: if there's a mass combat at the end of game, I will be going home once I learn about it. Even if I am required to be there for it, nobody listens to the Seneschal anyway. If there is a mass combat that ends up sucking half or more of the players, especially for past events, I will be going home. Mass combats shorten my patience, sometimes very quickly. And since most of my affairs are conducted with those who are likely to be in those scenes, it shortens the time I have to play. Thusly, there is no reason for me to stay when I could be at home playing EQ2.

This pisses me off. I'm sorry, but what a bunch of crap. If there's a mass combat you're taking your toys and going home? Give me a break. This kind of statement seems both childish and selfish. Combat is a part of this game, and with the Sabbat plot kicking into high gear a very welcome part to many players who are looking to shine in the areas that they have built their characters for.

You built your character to be social. How would you feel if people broke character and stormed off whenever there was a big social scene because they built their characters for combat?

Your suggestion about locking down combats once they have begun is both valid and smart, add I aggree with it wholeheartedly, but the above has no place here in my opinion.

[Lady Daniels]

This pisses me off. I'm sorry, but what a bunch of crap. If there's a mass combat you're taking your toys and going home? Give me a break. This kind of statement seems both childish and selfish. Combat is a part of this game, and with the Sabbat plot kicking into high gear a very welcome part to many players who are looking to shine in the areas that they have built their characters for.

You built your character to be social. How would you feel if people broke character and stormed off whenever there was a big social scene because they built their characters for combat?

I am perfectly aware that combat is part of Vampire, Chris. That is not the point that I argue. I am also not disrespecting those who prefer that kind of play. My point is that mass combats can be detrimental to the game, especially when they cover more than one game for the same night. I do believe you already made some remarks about that.

Characters who storm off during social scenes: some do that. Pick your reason, in game or not.

Being selfish: When I come to game, I come to play E in real time. If there's previous week stuff to do that can't be done during the week, I try to get it done ASAP so I can be in the same time frame as others. This is mainly for myself, and I shall admit my preference to not cross information because I may get confused. If that makes me selfish, brand me so.

I don't recall ever saying that mass combat isn't without reason. Personally, I've had too many bad experiences with them. I also don't recall saying that the staff is to blame or similar. My bone is the fact that stuff like this, when it pertains to "past" events, it drops the whole game into a time bubble. Now, waiting for prior stuff to wrap is fine, but you add to that, the sad but true fact that mass combats are never swift, and in my case, you get the Seneschal robbed of her chance to screw people over. I mean, come on! I decry this injustice! =D

[Barnaby Cuthbert]

Yep, we aggree multi-night-ret-con mass combat blows chunks.

I could care less if characters storm out In Game and In Character during social scenes.

lol... I see your point was more directed to the multi-night time bubble of doom effect. (you've heard of the Butterfly Effect, this is the Butterfinger Effect) And far be it from me to suggest that robbing the Seneschal of her duly appointed screwing of otehr PCs is a good thing...

[Shakir Movre']

So, what is the final verdict, so that we can be prepared for game?

[Joseph Mayek]

You know... I've kept pretty quiet on this, except for voicing a dislike for mass combat systems, which I've had bad experience with.

But...
I want to know just -what- mass combat everyone is talking about? I -know- it's not the mass combat -me and kyle- were in. Because we were there alone. Travel time -was- being accounted for. And I say it was 'mass combat' because while there were just 2 of us... as for the sabat.. Damn.

But where the hell was this other mass combat? The two on three combat (Two npc sabbat, Okeefe, Gavin, and Henrietta)
which was done in pretty decent time from what I saw? Enough time before game ended for other things to go on?

Was there another combat I haven't heard about?

Or, instead, are people -only- bitching about the time bubble? Because that's what it sounds like. People having to rp out the the fallout, dealing with the Masquerade (which I think the ST's were actually pretty light on, i believe), and -finding out- what the hell happened? The -social- aspect of it?

Hmmm.. interesting.

And, just fyi for all you people. The actual -mass combat- didn't go on for two games. Sure there was -some time- spent AFTER game the Saturday previous (Thanks to ST's putting in the extra time and effort) to help get things set up, etc. But the actual combat went on before, and during the next game.

So, sure, you people were pulled back in time... But Hey, I've got an idea for all this time bubble business.

As the Combat wasn't started till the very end of last game, and the events leading up to it was near the close of game as well.

Why not say a few key events (Including only Joseph and Victor) occured this past Saturday instead of the week before.

Therefore, no time bubble, and all those people that were pulled out, were pulled out in "present time".
And, while that might cause abit of adjusting to for some people, as far as time line, I'm sure that could fit in without so much effort.

As for all this complaining about mass combat. I'd really like to know if I missed some grand mass combat that took forever that -I wasn't a part of with one other PC, and no one else-. Considering out of the 4 hours at game. "All those people" the "half the people at game" etc, weren't pulled out until the -Last freaking hour- of game. Maybe an hour and a half before the end of game.

But really, is this just an excuse to bitch?

Anyways... *shakes head and goes to read IC crack*

[benime]

The lesson at the heart of all of this: play Vampire for politics, play Werewolf for action.

>=)

No, but seriously - I think maybe this conversation has turned from "How can we deal with last week and streamline combat" into "I hate combat because it's boring." I'm sure we've still got ideas for streamlining, right?

[Isabella Antimony Crane]

You know, this -is- pretend.
So have the rest of the world "paused" during the actual RP of the combat (which we could say still happened the night it was supposed to, and ran late into the night) and then just let everything move foreward.
It's not really all that hard to edit a week's work of play to include details, as an online ST, I do it all the time. Time in a game is flexible. It is a concept. One night can stretch over three days, and combat can stretch from 2 minutes in play-time to 40 minutes in combat throws.
Sometimes you have to waste time being OOC while the STs and other players are busy, shit happens when you're dealing with a limited timeframe. We all need to learn, cope, and get over it.
This is coming from someone who sat on her duff half the night due to the crapola.
Say the Court was -forced- to reconvine at another time because the Prince had an emergency to tend to, yadda yadda yadda... and bob's your uncle.
And sue can be your aunt.
Or the other way around if you're a Cash fan.
Aaanywho, I wanna give big props to the STs for running combat -that- fast. I have NEVER been able to pull an hour twenty combat scene when there's 10+ people unless they're all uber-talented and practiced at combat, nothing had to be looked up, and every single ST was in synch.
As you're not telepaths, you get my kudos.
So yeah, I think it'd be a good idea to just let it go. Everything happened, just maybe at different -times- during the week... or at different times during the day.
You're storytellers. Edit the story
You're players... shoot from the hip!
Anyway, that's my two-fiddy.
Pax
-C

[Janet]

Combat happens. In Vampire, it doesn't happen often. When it does, the people who don't play combat characters scream and get mad that it did happen.

Yes, the ret-con might have been able to be avoided, but the shit hit the fan. Deal, folks. Please.

This is ridiculous. It doesn't happen often. As a matter of fact, the last MASS combat I remember was........the Demon fight? I mean, there have been other fights, but nothing else that took this kind of time up. And that was OVER A YEAR AGO!

It is a welcome change when something shakes up the nice safe stability of our play. It actually puts risk in the character's lives beyond whether or not they can out-social, or out-influence others. Now there is a very real possibility of death and life-changing events for our characters. There is a very real chance that, if the fighters fall, even the socialites in their safe Elysium will die because the Domain is over run.

You feel you need something to rp with while everyone else is off fighting? There you go! Worry about it. Show concern. Organize non-combatants to be prepared to take care of the fighters when they return......such as have blood available to them so they can avoid frenzy/heal/anything else they absolutely need to do. There is a lot to do.

Hell, I was not a combatant last week, but I was the one sitting away from the scene doing the job of three people who were unable, or chose not to, do their jobs. There was a lot to do, certainly a lot of waiting, but a lot to keep me occupied.

You know what? Because I stuck around for that, when really I could have not been there......I HAD FUN! I was kept up on what was happening. I was interacting with those in the field. Add to that, I didn't even figure into the mass combat!

Bah.......I should stop ranting. People who bitch that there is absolutely nothing to do for their character during mass combat should figure something out. Be creative. Get your brain working. If these were actual people protecting your actual home from actual enemies, what preparations would you make? Would you be prepared to receive the injured and get them back out as soon as they were ready? Would you be prepared to clean up the mess afterwards when the fighters are exhausted? Would you be prepared to lift a weapon yourself should they fall?

Really, folks, it isn't that difficult.

/rant