Post by Kevin K on Oct 5, 2005 13:18:52 GMT -8
Lores
So, we've spent the last several months trying to figure out how to handle Lores. We think they're important, knowing the details of a Discipline or a race like Ghosts can be just as powerful as knowing how to wield a sword.
So, first we went back to the books. According to third edition, the way we should be handling all situations that involve someone knowing something about a power or a system of Kindred government (the two situations we have the most), we should be making an Intelligence+Politics or +Occult roll, with the difficulty modified by any applicable secondary abilities (like Kindred Lore 2). The number of successes would be the level at which you could speak.
Except that would suck. You could know all the details of the Inner Council one night, but have no idea what the Red List is another. And it doesn't take into account the fact that you've been told about it. And it would add a lot of tests to our roleplay.
But it's clear that the books intend for what you can know and remember to derive from the way you've spent your XP. So with that in mind, here's what we've come up with:
--- THE SYSTEM ---
There are 4 stages of knowledge:
0) I was told tonight
1) I've never heard about this (in game) but I study the
occult/politics, so I'll take a whack
2) I've heard of that, lemme see what i can remember
3) Oh, I know that.
Stage 0 is a non-stage, because you're allowed to remember (pretty much) anything you're told in the same night.
Stage 1 encompasses the system whereby anyone can make an int+oclt (or pol) roll diff 6 to see what they can think of on the subject at hand. This approach is limited to level 1 Lore, or Level 2 of your own sect/breed/clan. Out of clan lores, and obscure lores (Lores not listed on the website) cannot be tested for here. Depending on the
succeses gained they can speak some truth and some falsehood on the topic.
1-2 suc, 3 falsehoods for every one truth, or 25% true
3-4 suc, 1 falsehood for every one truth, or 50% true
5-6 suc, 1 falsehood for every 3 truths, or 75% true
7+ suc, 100% true (may add falsehoods at own discretion but knows the truth IC)
Stage 2 is what happens when a character has heard/seen/experienced some information but does not have the lore for that info, and they want to remember it. The player rolls their int+oclt/pol diff 8, (diff is modified by existing lores) and the number of successes determines
what lore level they can remember info up to.
An example for this system:
Brian the Brujah Anarch is talking to some Elders in Elysium. Prior to tonight, he was told that the followers of Set were asked to join initially (Cam Lore 4), he was told about the Red List (Cam Lore 3), and has heard the listing of the Traditions (Cam Lore 2). How much can he say?
Brian has Cam Lore 1 (real, and he's an Anarch). He rolls
Int+Politics at difficulty 7 (normally 8, but -1 for secondary ability). He gets three successes. He can talk about the red list people, and list the traditions, but can't remember
what he was told about the Setites and the beginnings of the Camarilla.
In order to expediate roleplay, only one roll is needed per lore type (roll once for Cam Lore stuff you want to talk about, once for Anarch, etc). Remember, the standard situations for all rolls are in place here: You can spend Willpower for an extra success, you can try again at +1 difficulty, and if you have specialties, they may apply.
Stage 3 is when the player has purchased the lore for the thing they want to talk about, there is no roll. As long as they have bought the lore, they can talk the talk.
--------------------------------
So that's the system, on with the editorializing.
The goal of this system isn't to restrict knowledge from characters, but to confer advantages on those characters whose stats represent the acquisition and retaining of knowledge. Characters with high Intellect have an advantage in this system. Characters with high
occult or politics have an advantage. Those who have bought the actual Lore have the highest advantage. Furthermore, since there is a distinction between handing out one tidbit and teaching the Lore, those with the knowledge can share parts of it, strategically, without
worrying that their carefully collected knowledge will spread like a Paris Hilton video.
Furthermore, we're hoping that this allows players another avenue for conflict without combat. We'll be running a giant example of this system with Saturday's Debate between the Prince and Cassidy. We hope to see that there's still a large opportunity for roleplay, but that roleplay will be shaped by the way that Cassidy and the Prince have organized their attributes and knowledges.
Lastly, a technicality. Because Occult and Politics are Knowledges, the book tells us that if you don't have a dot in those abilities, you can't make the roll. That's true, but right now that would suck. We'll be giving everyone about a month or so to get that in order before we enforce it, since this need for it hasn't been clear before. As a reminder, you can self-teach any ability up to 3, Occult and Politics included.
So, that's the plan. Comments? Questions?
So, we've spent the last several months trying to figure out how to handle Lores. We think they're important, knowing the details of a Discipline or a race like Ghosts can be just as powerful as knowing how to wield a sword.
So, first we went back to the books. According to third edition, the way we should be handling all situations that involve someone knowing something about a power or a system of Kindred government (the two situations we have the most), we should be making an Intelligence+Politics or +Occult roll, with the difficulty modified by any applicable secondary abilities (like Kindred Lore 2). The number of successes would be the level at which you could speak.
Except that would suck. You could know all the details of the Inner Council one night, but have no idea what the Red List is another. And it doesn't take into account the fact that you've been told about it. And it would add a lot of tests to our roleplay.
But it's clear that the books intend for what you can know and remember to derive from the way you've spent your XP. So with that in mind, here's what we've come up with:
--- THE SYSTEM ---
There are 4 stages of knowledge:
0) I was told tonight
1) I've never heard about this (in game) but I study the
occult/politics, so I'll take a whack
2) I've heard of that, lemme see what i can remember
3) Oh, I know that.
Stage 0 is a non-stage, because you're allowed to remember (pretty much) anything you're told in the same night.
Stage 1 encompasses the system whereby anyone can make an int+oclt (or pol) roll diff 6 to see what they can think of on the subject at hand. This approach is limited to level 1 Lore, or Level 2 of your own sect/breed/clan. Out of clan lores, and obscure lores (Lores not listed on the website) cannot be tested for here. Depending on the
succeses gained they can speak some truth and some falsehood on the topic.
1-2 suc, 3 falsehoods for every one truth, or 25% true
3-4 suc, 1 falsehood for every one truth, or 50% true
5-6 suc, 1 falsehood for every 3 truths, or 75% true
7+ suc, 100% true (may add falsehoods at own discretion but knows the truth IC)
Stage 2 is what happens when a character has heard/seen/experienced some information but does not have the lore for that info, and they want to remember it. The player rolls their int+oclt/pol diff 8, (diff is modified by existing lores) and the number of successes determines
what lore level they can remember info up to.
An example for this system:
Brian the Brujah Anarch is talking to some Elders in Elysium. Prior to tonight, he was told that the followers of Set were asked to join initially (Cam Lore 4), he was told about the Red List (Cam Lore 3), and has heard the listing of the Traditions (Cam Lore 2). How much can he say?
Brian has Cam Lore 1 (real, and he's an Anarch). He rolls
Int+Politics at difficulty 7 (normally 8, but -1 for secondary ability). He gets three successes. He can talk about the red list people, and list the traditions, but can't remember
what he was told about the Setites and the beginnings of the Camarilla.
In order to expediate roleplay, only one roll is needed per lore type (roll once for Cam Lore stuff you want to talk about, once for Anarch, etc). Remember, the standard situations for all rolls are in place here: You can spend Willpower for an extra success, you can try again at +1 difficulty, and if you have specialties, they may apply.
Stage 3 is when the player has purchased the lore for the thing they want to talk about, there is no roll. As long as they have bought the lore, they can talk the talk.
--------------------------------
So that's the system, on with the editorializing.
The goal of this system isn't to restrict knowledge from characters, but to confer advantages on those characters whose stats represent the acquisition and retaining of knowledge. Characters with high Intellect have an advantage in this system. Characters with high
occult or politics have an advantage. Those who have bought the actual Lore have the highest advantage. Furthermore, since there is a distinction between handing out one tidbit and teaching the Lore, those with the knowledge can share parts of it, strategically, without
worrying that their carefully collected knowledge will spread like a Paris Hilton video.
Furthermore, we're hoping that this allows players another avenue for conflict without combat. We'll be running a giant example of this system with Saturday's Debate between the Prince and Cassidy. We hope to see that there's still a large opportunity for roleplay, but that roleplay will be shaped by the way that Cassidy and the Prince have organized their attributes and knowledges.
Lastly, a technicality. Because Occult and Politics are Knowledges, the book tells us that if you don't have a dot in those abilities, you can't make the roll. That's true, but right now that would suck. We'll be giving everyone about a month or so to get that in order before we enforce it, since this need for it hasn't been clear before. As a reminder, you can self-teach any ability up to 3, Occult and Politics included.
So, that's the plan. Comments? Questions?
)
