Lookin for thoughts on Clan Caps

[Jonathan Winters-Garden]

Well it is a rant board LOL.

There was a discussion on clan caps at Phils table with Griff and ____ (sorry im bad with names )
What are your thoughts....?

[Jonathan Winters-Garden]

My thoughts are this:

I understand why they have clan caps. I really do. To a point I agree with them. Diversity in the game is good.
The part I don't like is that some people, who are no longer here or show up very infrequently, are messing with the clan caps.

I would like to ask for better record keeping for clan caps. A thread from someone who simply says:


XX/15 Brujah
XX/15 Gangrel
XX/15 Malkavian
XX/15 Nosferatu
XX/15 Toreador
XX/15 Ventrue
XX/07 Tremere
XX/07 Giovanni
XX/05 Caitiff
XX/02 Assamite Magic users
XX/02 Assamite Non-Magic users
XX/03 Setite
XX/02 Thinbloods
XX/01 Ravnos
XX/01 Lasombra (Anti-tribu only)


Just seamed that Clan Caps caused quite a stir....

[Ivaret]

And a partridge in a pear tree?

[Kenneth Ashland]

Lookit the active status listing.

Lists names and "declared" clan.

Probably the best gauge you're going to get...though all the Gangrel are really Setites...but they won't tell you that, see...

[Deimos]

What, you mean a forked tongue and hypnotic snake eyes aren't normal beast traits?

[Kenneth Ashland]

Sure, if you're Rolf the velociraptor...

[Deimos]

*kee!*

He's in the walls!

*BLAMMO! BLAMMO!*

DIE YOU BASTARD!!!

[Jonathan Winters-Garden]

Ross... did look at the status page before being excited I actually got to play a Tremere. Come to find out the 3 or 4 listed there does not represent the 7 that are actually "in town". No necessarily being played though.

So everyone agrees with clan caps... glad to see everyone actually agrees on something

[Thornstar]

Some reasoning on an individual level for each limit, whether large or small.



XX/15 Brujah
Camarilla Clan
XX/15 Gangrel
Former Camarilla Clan
XX/15 Malkavian
Camarilla Clan
XX/15 Nosferatu
Camarilla Clan
XX/15 Toreador
Camarilla Clan
XX/15 Ventrue
Camarilla Clan
XX/07 Tremere
Camarilla Clan, Massively Storyteller Intensive due to Prevalence of Thaumaturgy
XX/07 Giovanni
Independant Clan, WIELDS NECROMANCY, Relatively uncommon
XX/05 Caitiff
Not that they're all that uncommon, more that they are unpopular and prone to concise meetings with scourges.
XX/02 Assamite Magic users
Uncommon Geographically, Very Abusable, Independant for the most part. Camarilla examples almost unheard of.
XX/02 Assamite Non-Magic users
Uncommon Geographically, Very Abusable, Independant for the most part. Camarilla examples almost unheard of.
XX/03 Setite
Uncommon Geographically, Very Abusable, Independant for the most part. Camarilla examples almost unheard of.
XX/02 Thinbloods
Rare. Dangerous. Very Abusable.
XX/01 Ravnos
Mostly dead, on the run, unwanted and shunned.
XX/01 Lasombra (Antitribu only)
Technically not even allowed in Seattle (a la canon)
Obtenebration is a huge breach of the Masqerade if seen, Camarilla fairly untrusting of Lasombra of any type due to the fact they are A SABBAT CLAN. Mostly.

Also remember that I do not speak for the staff here, merely going out on a limb because I feel the Caps are Extraordinarily fair, and in some cases, a little too permissive. I also feel that the way they are maintained is, in fact, well recorded and limited.

The clan Capping is not an excercise in diversity. It is truly quite the opposite. It encourages compatible character types and ensures that there wil be a game which runs smoothly enough to remain viable. By making sure that all six or less of the Camarilla Tzimisce NEVR show up here, we are offered a better game. By making sure that PC's are from at least somewhat similar clan backgrounds, We are all able to play.

If it feels unfair, well... Sorry. Suspension of disbelief must be maintained if the roleplaying experience is to be at all rewarding, and this cannot be acheived if every other sentance coming out of a character's mouth is " You're a what?" or "Sure, Ill teach you chimerstry and Vicissitude and Visceratika."

This is because it is impossible to believe.

And if the Issue is wanting to play a Tremere, then making a public display of your hurt feelings that you tried to sneak in as one without checking first is quite unfair to the ST who had to explain to you how this all works. The Tremere are HEAVILY regulated because they are sooooooo hard to play correctly. It is an insane amount of work on both the part of the ST and the Player. Thus, they are less common here.

That's my $0.02.

Or perhaps a nickel.

[Deimos]

Almost a dime, but well spent.

[Justin]

It all sounds good to me.

Course now I think of it, if you get the clan caps down just a bit. Then Garou could grow just a bit more also. mwhahahaha.

[Jonathan Winters-Garden]

This sure is turning into less than a rant, as it did at the paperwork table, and more of "to bad live with it".
Let me reiterate what I said earler as it appears people skipped over what I actually said and just started in on the list that I made making comments that have nothing to do with what I said...

Hopefully plain as day:
1. Don't care how they came up with the total.
2. Not saying I disagree with the totals/Not saying they are not fair.
3. Those "XX"'s are actually more like a "fill in how many are in use" or as they would be listed in Microsoft's Excel "##". Place holders...
4. I was mostly wondering, from an ST, if it is possible for them to update us to how many out of the total are used (or what is availible) so that we know what is ok to create and what is not.

And if the Issue is wanting to play a Tremere, then making a public display of your hurt feelings that you tried to sneak in as one without checking first is quite unfair to the ST who had to explain to you how this all works.

Actually I checked with an ST before I created a character. According to the status page there are 3 or 4 tremere and yes, i wanted to play one. I went to the ST and said, "i want to play a tremere" and she replyed "i think they are full ask phil". Then I went to Phil and asked. He said "cant because they are full." where in I asked him "what is availible?" and he read me a list. There was some "I dont know about this clan... i think there is a slot" and some "i dont know about this clan... i think there isnt a slot."
I asked something like, "well i want to play this and if not this then this and if not that then this..." because he didnt know.

I have no idea mr dominic what your talking about. I didn't try to sneak something in without going through an st; you kinda can't. I had an idea of what I wanted to play because I researched the clan numbers before I asked. I was irritated that there is no where that we can see what is open without going to an ST. Id rather beable to look at a webpage and see what is availible instead of waiting in line at that table to ask what clan I can choose so i can stand inline again to get it approved.

It's always better to be in the original conversation rather than making up stuff later, huh?

[Thornstar]

Thats why I said "if."

Its always better to pay attention to grammar and syntax, huh?

[Jonathan Winters-Garden]

Sure is...
Just kinda sounded like you where freaking out over shit you misheard, huh...

[wereastsarah]

I can see a viable reason why the Vampire STs would not inform you of at least some of what caps are filled. If only one Lasombra is allowed and they tell you that cap is filled, then you know that there is a Lasombra out there some where. The chance of the situation getting metagamed greatly increases, which directly decreases the amount of fun people have playing the game.

Logistically speaking, it ends up being a bad idea. Though I do agree that the Logistician should have clear numbers of what is and is not available for play.

[Jonathan Winters-Garden]

I see it being an issue only because noone had any idea "for sure" noone could look up easily or just say "oh yeah we have this" it was kinda hit and miss of "maybe let me talk to the players and see".

I liked the "this is what is availible" list that phil gave me.

[Kevin K]

"no one" is technically incorrect: Phil knows the current state of the clan counts. He takes into account those who are not currently present, but have not yet been gone for a month's time.

There's another reason we don't post the public clan counts. From time to time, the public count of the members in a clan does not match the actual count of characters in that clan. Imagine this list, starting with the knowledge there are 10 Toreador in the city, two of which are named "Jack" and "Alexis":

Toreador: 8/15:
Setite: 2/2

Granted, Jack and Alexis' setite nature was probably the worst-kept OOC secret I know of, but it gets the point across.

[satyavati]

And there are some who do have permission to go longer than a month and not lose ther characters provided they have spoken with an ST ahead of time and got it cleared up, due to family work or other personal issues that takes them away for a time longer than a month.

[Jonathan Winters-Garden]

I understand not posting the clan counts: meta-gaming
Is there anyway, then, to have someone keep an updated list of what is acceptable to play?

[Kevin K]

I think Phil's the guy for that. He has lots of stuff going on, though, so I understand if he doesn't have that ready at every moment. Be sure to correctly characterize your question, sometimes people ask for general "is-this-at-all-possible" questions, and sometimes you need "next week I want to show up with this. Yes/No?"

Tremere is an exception, as Kaine's handling most of those details. Otherwise it's Phil.

-Kevin