Charter action rant/post locked

[Roxy Anne Starler]

I'd like a really good reason why Toni was banned! Not some BS, but the truth. I'm ready to quit game again and I'd prefer not to. 

[Bubba Kush]

Toni and her group did a lot for this game and did more to make this game immersive & story-driven than anyone.

When I first entered game I assumed Toni and Rose were STs, given how much set-up they were doing.

It's a damn shame to ban her.

[Athena Fire-in-Snow]

Rumor has it that she was banned "from ECC". If this is true, I want to know by what mechanism she was banned from ECC as a whole and not just Vampire. Each sphere has control over its own membership, but being banned from the whole isn't in the purview of any single sphere's staff....

[Jeff]

I will not speak to specific circumstances, there are PA issues / appeals involved regarding the potential ban, I can say that she was asked not to come to game this last Saturday. I have not heard the status of the appeal, so will not speak regarding the final result.

I can say this only applied to the Vampire sphere, as the request came from the vampire HST. Of course, Toni only currently plays in that single sphere.

[BLewis]

Heresay and rumor damage things more thoroughly than any actual deed, but this sort of post on this sort of venue really isn't the "right" method to address this sort of concern either way.

[Styx]

Two things:

One, no one should jump to any conclusions or assumptions, wait until whatever the truth of the matter is is revealed;

Two, banning someone is a significant process that can't just happen on a whim; procedures through the notr have to be followed, which are there to ensure that if someone is actually banned, there's a good reason.

[Thornstar]

I dunno. It's a concern that's out of character, and that is not a rant. Seems legit.

[BLewis]

"What the actual F**K" is very rant-laden.

[Dimitri Vasilescu]

Can I encourage anyone to contact your nearest PA or ST to dissuade the rumors and understand what leads to this sort of thing?

Making posts and reactionary posts and interjections to things that may or may not be true is doing nothing but the equivalent of trying to start a riot, or at least a flame war. So step back, take a deep breath, and contact your nearest PA or ST.

[Thornstar]

Jan 22, 2014 9:49:48 GMT -8 BLewis said:

"What the actual F**K" is very rant-laden.

Censored for propriety, gets it's point across, and no one is ranting. People just want to know stuff, and we have a terribly information-poor communication style that's been dominating the administration and management of the Vampire sphere for some time now. This is natural progression, and it's not out of line.

[Ascanio Giovanni]

Jan 22, 2014 9:58:07 GMT -8 Dimitri Vasilescu said:

Can I encourage anyone to contact your nearest PA or ST to dissuade the rumors and understand what leads to this sort of thing?

Making posts and reactionary posts and interjections to things that may or may not be true is doing nothing but the equivalent of trying to start a riot, or at least a flame war. So step back, take a deep breath, and contact your nearest PA or ST.

+1 Tate.

Can we please at least wait for staff to have a chance to comment before the flame war and riots begin?

[Thornstar]

That sounds like the exact reason this thread seems to have been initiated. I, too, look forward to this possible occurrence.

[Valerie]

Here's the problem:

I don't think this thread is going to accomplish anything. Our "justice system" of PAs and STs operates (as far as I understand) in closed hearings. The entire point of the separate player, storyteller, and player advocate "layers" is to keep one hand from knowing who the other hand is for the sake of sensitivity and privacy.

I'm not making a judgment statement on that either way. I'm simply saying that you don't like that, you have to change the justice system.

I personally find it hard to swallow that Toni could do anything which would warrant a 3-month ban from Vampire, but I'm not an ST or a PA, which means I - like all of you - will likely never know all of the pieces in play and why whoever came to that decision decided it was the right one.

Do I think it'd be nice for us to know why ANYONE who gets banned got banned? Absolutely. Maybe we don't need the gory details, but a nice "X person was found to have done Y and was given Z punishment for reasons 1, 2, and 3." helps everyone out as it gives us a tangible road from action to reaction and what we can expect from the charter. However, I'm not holding my breath, and even in that case the announcement would suffer from some serious confirmation bias. Whoever is announcing the discipline is probably going to phrase it in such a way that they sound like they have the right of it, even if there was internal disagreement among involved PAs/STs/players trying to figure out how to handle the situation.

[Anonymous]

Why was she banned in the first place? Why hasn't the staff made a statement publicly available? What rules did she break? How is banning her the right thing to do in this instance?

[Jeff]

At this point nothing is set, an appeals process is in place, and it is the right of Toni to expect privacy if she desires it. I would ask patience while Toni, chosen PAs, and the Staff determine the final outcome. At that time I would hope for the details that the parties involved feel appropriate.

[Ross]

Jan 22, 2014 14:41:16 GMT -8 Jeff said:

At this point nothing is set, an appeals process is in place, and it is the right of Toni to expect privacy if she desires it. I would ask patience while Toni, chosen PAs, and the Staff determine the final outcome. At that time I would hope for the details that the parties involved feel appropriate.

Seconded. Everyone please table your questions and concerns for the time being, until there is something definitive to discuss.

Thank you.

-Ross
Player Advocate

[Webmonkey]

Huh, well I guess this is what happens when I miss a game. I don't know what's going on either, but I'm locking this thread because:

1. The issue is clearly between a player and staff.

2. Player advocates have been engaged already.

It's up to the player at this point to discuss it if she chooses to do so. It's staff's job to respect player privacy while whatever appeals are going on.

My suggestion to curious players is the following:

1. Wait. When and if whatever actions are final, the staff may make a general announcement about it - but don't expect harpy gossip style details. Think about whether you (anyone, not a specific poster) really need to know, because we probably don't. There are almost 20 PAs and staff. That's 20 people aware of any given issue. If there were some gross abuse going on by staff, we'd hear about it. The issue is likely complex and may require delicacy.

If you (anyone, not a specific poster) can't deal, you (anyone, not a specific poster) could always ask the player aside and in private, not in a public forum. I would expect that while an appeals process is happening, she's going to want it to remain private, as undoubtedly tempers are high to get to this point and rumors don't help, so maybe if you (anyone, not a specific poster) care about Toni you'll leave her be to work on this and not bombard her with questions while emotions are high.

If you (anyone, not a specific poster) still can't deal, take a break from game. Seriously, if the idea of someone doing something that may require charter enforcement makes you livid/unable to play or have fun, then you should consider taking the time you need to gain some perspective about what this game is and what the point of the charter is. There's no shame in playing Mage or Sabbat or Werewolf for awhile, or even just taking a break. Gamer burn out is a real thing.

Respect your own sanity and peace of mind, take a breath. Do not seek drama. Respect your elected volunteer Staff and volunteer PA's AND a long time player and friend all at once. Trust me, it can be done.

Peace.